Paige Nuzzolillo on the Anthro to UX Podcast with Matt Artz

Anthro to UX with Matt Artz

In this episode of the Anthro to UX podcast, Paige Nuzzolillo speaks with Matt Artz about her UX journey. The conversation covers Paige's early research career in participatory action research, the importance of training and mentorship, and how she uses art-based research (ABR) methods in her work as a Senior UX Researcher at Indeed.

About Paige Nuzzolillo

Paige Nuzzolillo is an energetic, collaborative, strategic, participatory, and creative qualitative UX Researcher. She currently works at Indeed.com on the SMB team with 50+ other researchers. She is embedded in a product team building tools to help fast-growing employers find the candidates they need regularly.

Recommended Links

• Paige Nuzzolillo's website
• Paige Nuzzolillo on LinkedIn
• Paige Nuzzolillo on Medium

Episode Transcript

Please note this transcript is an automated transcription and may have some errors. 0:00:00.7 Matt Artz: Welcome to the Anthro to UX podcast. You will learn how to break into UX within anthropology degree through conversations to competing anthropologists working in user experience, you will learn firsthand how others make the transition, what they learned along the way and what they would do differently. We will be discussing what it means to do UX research from a practical perspective, and what you need to do to prepare a resume and portfolio on your host, Matt Artz, a business anthropologist specializing in design anthropology and working at the intersection of product management, user experience and business strategy. Let's get started. How everyone will come back. A matter it. So the entry podcast, I'm here today with Paige Nuzzolillo and Paige is a senior user experience researcher at indeed previously a senior user experience research here, Delta Dental of Washington. So page, would you mind by town everybody, a little bit about your origin story... 0:00:58.2 Paige Nuzzolillo: Yeah, thanks so much, man. Yeah, my last name is a hard one to pronounce, I actually just got married and I'm still not gonna change it, I'm still gonna torture myself, I guess. So yeah, so I've been working in UX research for about five years now. But we've been working in research for a lot longer, and so I will say that my anthro origin story really started probably just with my really strong desire and wanting to travel and my family, not traveling anywhere really ever... My first time on a plane ever, I was in DC, I went to DC from Connecticut, very short plant, and I was 16 years old, so I hadn't traveled really outside of New England for a really long time, so I was always really, really interested in traveling, and I also just generally grew up with really a big hunch knowing that there's not one way of living, and I felt just really open-minded as a kid. I think part of that is also probably having a very strong European influence, my grandparents were immigrants from Italy, and so I grew up around them and just essentially immersed in European culture, they came to the US when they were both around 20. 0:02:20.6 Paige Nuzzolillo: So my grandmother was also one of my primary caregiver, so yeah, definitely really immersed in just living in other cultures, and then on top of that, I also worked a lot with my mom as a kid to learn about history and archeology. I actually went on an auricular dig with her at a historical site, she did a lot of marketing and event coordination for different circles in Connecticut, and so I just grew up in museums as well. I had a birthday party where I took a bunch of my friends to the Noah Webster house, as in the no, Webster Dictionary. And we all put bones on and made cake by the heart and played colonial games, so that was my idea of fun when I was 10 years old, so they were a little different, but overall, I think I just really learned at a young age that... And I was also just really drawn to a young age that there's really not one right way to live, and I think that a lot of people also talk about how anthropology is a mindset. I feel like I hear that a lot when anthropology comes up in conversation with other anthropologists, and I think that... 0:03:30.4 Paige Nuzzolillo: It's absolutely true. I think that I had that mindset as a young kid, and eventually when I found anthropology, all the concepts of cultural overall Tevis and open-mindedness and being non-judgmental, all these things really just fit really nicely, but really just how I lived my life for a very long time. And then also I ended up traveling, so I ended up going to ER of backpacking with my best friend. I hated Spanish when I was in school, I felt really devoid of context for me, it was my worst class, and then when I went backpacking with my best friend... I ended up falling in love with Spanish. We spent a lot of time in Barcelona, Madrid, and basically I decided that I was gonna go back there. And so I ended up teaching English and Spain as well. So I had a really immersive experience living in Spain for nine months, and also six months studying abroad, I was about a year and a half total. And I was contracted by the Spanish government when I was teaching in a Spanish secondary school. And I was living with Spanish roommates that didn't speak any English, and same when I was studying abroad, living with a family that didn't speak in the English, so definitely put myself in situations throughout my life that really encouraged me to learn about other cultures, both in school, when I ended up learning more about anthropology and actually switching my major from English, Anthropology, and then also just these other experiences that I had was studying abroad and then after school also teaching. 0:04:54.3 Paige Nuzzolillo: So yeah, so I think that overall, that's why I talk about travel, just because I think that's what really instigated me to actually go ahead and actually study anthropology in the first place, and... Yeah, so then from there, I ended up... I ended up actually sitting in a career and research panel at the University of Connecticut, and that was right when I had switched my major from English to anthro, and I ended up meeting researchers that worked at a community-based research institute in Connecticut, and I ended up working there for four years as an intern, and then I also worked there as my first full-time physician and a school as well, and I was involved in community-based participatory action research in multiple different topics from substance abuse prevention, STI and HIV prevention, and also substance abuse prevention as well, so it was involved in a lot of really amazing work with researchers that were also a PS, an anthropology that were also professors as well, so I had a lot of really great exposure to research as well when I was in Applied Anthropology, when I was actually in school as an undergrad too. 0:06:09.5 Matt Artz: Then you said that you graduated and you didn't... You worked in research for a while before getting to us, so... What did that journey look like? 0:06:18.6 Paige Nuzzolillo: Yeah, so that's when I would say so working at ICR at the Institute for community research, I first was an intern there, so I was involved in an NIH-funded study that was around female condom acceptability and accessibility for those at high risk of HIV STIS and Hartford Connecticut. And so I worked on that study for a long period of time, I was involved in qualitative data analysis, coding interviews, transcribing interviews as an intern, and then also actually conducting interviews myself in Spanish and English, which was really awesome. As an undergrad, it was amazing opportunity to have that ability to do that kind of work, and then also I was collecting data in inter-surveys as well, where male and female condoms were sold, so I really got a sense of what data collection was like as an intern, and also just what it would be like to actually go into the field and work on some of these more sensitive topics as well, and then... So I worked on that project for a period of time, and then I ended up getting my first full-time position, and that was when I actually worked on two participatory action research projects, where I was involved in teaching youth how to actually conduct research themselves on topics that were of importance to them in their communities as all... 0:07:49.2 Paige Nuzzolillo: Partier action research is all about change in a community and basically using research as a tool for community organizing, and so I was involved in actually teaching youth that were part of these programs all about qualitative and quantitative data collection, and brought them through trainings on how to conduct an interview, how to do a simple survey and also ecological modeling and things like this, and then we actually would take all this data that they gathered on various topics in our case, that was food justice and substance abuse prevention related issues, took all this data and then package it in a way that we could then present it to the community, and this is where I started to also get a taste for more arts-based research methodologies as well. So one of the things that we did for Substance Abuse Research, that project that we did specifically, we took the data and then worked with the teen researchers to actually storyboard that data into a story, and then actually filmed them... The team researchers starring in the video that was informed by the research that they had actually done, presenting their stories that they had gathered through doing this research with their peers, and then presented those short psas essentially presented those to a large community in gathering. 0:09:16.5 Paige Nuzzolillo: So we had a prevention-related town home meeting, and that was where we showcase these videos and had a panel discussion with experts in the community related to substance abuse prevention, and really we're able to show that the data informed these stories, and also through that, through that exercise actually trained these teenagers in how to actually conduct their own research as well, so just incredible opportunities in learning about data collection directly from Applied anthropologists myself, and then also being able to provide the tools of research for community members as well to really help promote change positive change in their communities too, so that's a really incredible exposure to... Yeah, to really using research as a tool for change early on, and that I would say is the foundation of how I conduct research as a user researcher as well, and I have a really strong background in design thinking, methodologies and ideation techniques and things like this, so always encouraging my team to actually take the research that I have done, but actually do something with it, really make sure that it's going to be something that's going to be integrated into the product and figuring out how we can do that together as a team. 0:10:39.0 Paige Nuzzolillo: So really big foundational, I would say methodology, theory of how I conduct my research and now how I work. 0:10:49.2 Matt Artz: So I definitely wanna come back to some of how you bring some of these participatory sort of concepts into us, but... Let's get there first. So how did you discover us? And tell us a little bit about how you ended up at indeed. 0:11:05.7 Paige Nuzzolillo: Yeah, so this was really... I think it was a very winding path for me, so I eventually left ICR, the Institute for community research. I had started kind of dabbling in social media and marketing and also event coordination, and I ended up getting a job at Yelp, and so that kind of started my journey in Tech, I worked part-time at Yelp and then also worked in an event coordination for a bit, try that out, really didn't wanna do event coordination anymore, I liked the experience at Yelp, but I needed it to be more full-time, so I ended up then transitioning into marketing communications, and that really started to be more digital-focused as time went on for me, I worked at the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation in York at the headquarters, and so it was always kind of involved in health or always was drawn back to health and mission-oriented companies as well in organizations. And so I worked at Judo for a little while, and then eventually I said, Well, maybe I wanna do web development. So then I did a General Assembly program, learned front on web development. I had all these various positions, communications, marketing, I even dabbled a little bit in UX design, I also did project management later on, front-end web development, however, it sounds like their scatter, but all of these roles actually had really brought me to exactly where I needed to be... 0:12:37.3 Paige Nuzzolillo: And all these skills, maybe minus the really specific things about CSS and HTML, I really don't need to know that now, but I'd say that all of these various positions that I've had have really helped me in UX research and being a UX researcher, especially project management, marketing communications and also being able to communicate with developers, being able to communicate with our designers, being able to have also actually even been a junior product manager before I even working in product management too. So eventually I ended up, I was working in product training for a little bit for a graphic design-focused company, and I ended up actually getting laid off from that role, and I decided that I needed to make a change and really I wanted to transition into UX I had really gotten a great exposure in that position to what us... What even was in the first place, and so I decided to do a mentorship program through hexagon UX in Seattle, and through that program, I had a mentor for three months... We met bi-weekly, I think. She was absolutely amazing. She looked at my resume. At one point, I told her, I said, I don't know if I want to do design or research, I really am not sure. 0:13:58.4 Paige Nuzzolillo: And she looked at my resume and she said, You've done research for a long time, like why not do research, it seems like it really matches well with your background, and so then I ended up getting some pro bono projects, and I ended up getting some clients, I built a portfolio, I did some research, and then I ended up getting my first full-time position, it was a contract role to start at Del ideal of Washington, they were looking for a lead, essentially lead researcher. There was no other researcher at the company at that time, so they were really looking for someone to build the research practice there, and there were other experts in product and design thinking that were there, but there was no dedicated researcher, so I really came in as a contractor at first, but then I ended up moving into full-time in that role, and I ended up... Yeah, being there for quite a while, did a lot to build their research capacity and teach the company about research, but super happy to be at indeed. Indeed has been an absolutely incredible company to work for, not only as a mission-driven in terms of our mission is to help people get jobs, but also the work that I do is just extremely fascinating, and the team that I work for is also incredibly supportive and also just extremely ambitious, intelligent, very diverse in terms of skill sets and backgrounds in terms of researchers, so that's been amazing to learn from other researchers who... 0:15:29.8 Paige Nuzzolillo: I came from that experience at Delta Dental, Washington, which was great and very different than what I'm experiencing now, but the key difference really being that I was the Solo researcher at Belden to Washington, so really a team of one as opposed to... And indeed, where I work with about, I think, 100 researchers now across our various organizations, so we have job-seeker, small, medium-sized businesses, and then Enterprise, and then we also do have a social impact team, and there's actually a few others that... I'm sorry, I'm not totally remembering right now, I think it's internal platforms is one, so apologies. But I work on small, medium-sized businesses, and so I do research specifically with employers, and that doesn't mean know that I'm only able to do research with employers, I'm translating a lot of data as well with various other teams, with job seeker and with enterprise as well. So yeah, so it's been great, it's just a really, really complex ecosystem to be working in, and I feel like I'm just constantly invigorated by the work that I do. 0:16:37.4 Matt Artz: So you said a few things in there that I wanna just have some quick follow-ups on one was that you... You did some pro bono work. When was I used a mentor and one that is that you took a contract role, but how do you think those paths were for you? And do you recommend them? You know, I know you can't universally recommend them to everybody, but now, what did you guys maybe learn from those three experiences? 0:17:01.7 Paige Nuzzolillo: Oh, yeah, definitely. So I will say, first of all, first of all, I know that being able to take pro bono work is a pre-lunch in the first place, so to first start out by saying that I was actually taking unemployment benefits, and I ended up being able to do some projects on the side and help people out and really also increase my own skills, so that really worked well for me. Financially, I was in a position where it just made sense... Contract role as well. I think the contract positions can be really, really incredible for someone just starting out, and also for someone that is just in need of a more flexible working environment or situation as well, like new parents, for example, the contract role can really help give that flexibility of not having to work over time necessarily, is working like a strict 40-hour work week or less potentially, and then also, you know, if you don't like the job of, you can leave, we can always leave our rules, I guess, but I think that it's a little bit more open in terms of when your contract's done, if there's no work after the contracts done, then you can move on to another position. 0:18:19.3 Paige Nuzzolillo: So I think the contract rules are also just really great if you are the type of person that likes to have different projects on a regular basis and likes to be exposed to different types of companies or things like this... So for me, that was amazing. At that period of time in my life at this point, I really appreciate the stability of having a full-time role as a senior UX researcher, but I think that contract rules, especially when you're starting out, can really just give you the exposure that you would not get really easily otherwise, and pro bono work, I think is great too, but it's really not a long-term solution, it's really just something in my mind to be able to get your foot in the door and get something in your portfolio and get some experience, a contract role can pay you. And I think that, yeah, it's just great for really starting out because I do think it can be more challenging when you're starting to get that full-time salary position, so if you're trying to transition into UX research from another previous role, and then mentor... So I absolutely am such an advocate of mentorship, I'm an advocate of mentorship across every single level of your career. 0:19:39.9 Paige Nuzzolillo: I was just mentored in fact by a lead UX researcher, and indeed, I believe she mentored me for like three months or something like that, or two months for pretty much the whole summer. That was amazing. I also have mentored other folks and indeed as well, and that's also been an incredible opportunity, I just wrapped up a nine months with someone who's a mid-level researcher, and I also have been mentored not only through that Huston UX mentorship program, which really gave me that impetus of even doing UX in first place, but I've also been mentored actually when I was at Del didnt Al Washington, because I was a solo researcher there, I actually used an educational stipend through the company, which is an incredible opportunity. I always have utilized as much as I can, the educational simonds that have been provided to me, and I'm incredibly grateful for that opportunity at my various companies, I don't think I would be where I am today if I really hadn't been given that opportunity of having those educational stipends. But so when I was undulating ton, I was a solo researcher, and I really just... I saw it, there was a gap in some of my support in terms of... 0:20:57.0 Paige Nuzzolillo: I was pretty new to UX research. I was in a senior role to start out, and I had the experience of working in many different companies prior to that, but was a Senior in UX research, I would say it was a lot more... Like mid-level junior. So for me, I really needed some support as a researcher, and so I actually worked with Nikki Anderson, who's based in Jersey now. She used to be based in Germany. But Nickerson is absolutely incredible. She helped me for nine months, and I use my educational stipend, and I met with Nikki, I think bi-weekly then too, and I actually got permission to be able to share with Nikki some of the work that I was doing. And so she was able to give me some really tangible feedback, and that just made me just an incredibly better researcher, and I still have a relationship with Nikki, and I'm just so so grateful for all the opportunities of mentorship, both that I've provided for others and also that I've been provided with two. So I am a huge advocate of mentorship really at every single level of your career. 0:22:09.6 Matt Artz: So now back to indeed, how do you bring in the the street of your participatory action research into the work you do there? 0:22:17.6 Paige Nuzzolillo: Yeah, so I like that it's really... It's almost like going back to what I was saying in the beginning, that Anthropology is like a mindset, obviously it's a lot more than a mindset, but I think that similarly, when I think about conducting UX research, part of my work is really... It's a mindset that I'm always thinking about how to really tangibly create change. So it's not enough for me to just do the research. Especially if it's a more generative research that might be a little bit harder to translate directly into product changes, I think that that's where there really becomes a lot of opportunity for creativity and for that participatory aspect of the work, where you can really work with your stakeholders to figure out how to take that research and all that data, all that work that's gone into collecting that data, how to really take all those insights and actually translate them into real product changes or improvements or something entirely new, maybe a completely new feature or tool or whatever it might be, that did not exist before, prior to the research, really helping to uncover those insights as to what would be helpful for people... 0:23:35.1 Paige Nuzzolillo: And so I have been trained through the Nielsen Norman Group. Again, super grateful for all of my companies to give me educational stipends... It's made this possible. I'm actually two, two classes away from getting my Masters certificate through NG, so I've taken a lot of courses with them, and my favorite ones are the Design Thinking ones, and so I've just had a lot of very tangible ways to translate insights into actual ideas or actionable, things that actually enhance the product, so I would say I try to run an ideation session actually, especially if it's a generative research study, if it's more of a evaluated study, which actually I don't really do a ton of a value of research anymore at this point, we have a rapid research team at indeed, which is incredible. And they support a lot of that work. They're actually also contractors, so they're all new in UX research and transitioning into it, so great opportunity for them for starting out, so just to go back to what I was saying before about contract roles and really how amazing that is to start out... So when I'm doing a generative study, I will always follow up with some sort of ideation session, normally I'll produce as part of my read out and part of my recommendations, some form of How might we statements to really get the team to start thinking about what are some of the opportunities here and how can we take these questions, these targeted yet also meant to be not limiting questions in our thinking and really get the team to think creatively about What can we do here as a result of these learnings? And so I run... 0:25:30.1 Paige Nuzzolillo: What I've done mostly because I am working fully remotely now, what it mostly is, is a pretty standard post-op type activity, really just with how might we statements and using Mira, which has been great. I absolutely love Miro, but basically using Mira to have the team, and that means product, UX, design, engineering and potentially other stakeholders as well outside of that core team, really have them just think of various potential solution ideas that really help address those... How might we questions? Those, how might we statements... And so that's what I've done mainly. I have done some more involved ideation, brainstorming, cross-team across various GMs, so across job seeker, enterprise and SMB at indeed as well, so there has been a little bit more complex type of ideation exercises that I have done, but typically with my team, I just really try to make sure that it's a concrete part, that's also an expected part of my process, so we road math every quarter, and when I plan study, I always make sure that my team is aware that we're going to have... Especially like I said, if it's a generative study, but we'll have an ideation session of some kind, exactly what it will look like is... 0:26:53.1 Paige Nuzzolillo: Gets determined a little bit later. After the research is done. But really make sure that they know that, Yeah, this is part of what we do. This is just part of our process. So it's worked really well for me. I normally scope out a week, so I don't go by a ton of time, that can mean that as I'm wrapping up my redo and developing my presentation, I'm also working on in getting my ID and session materials ready, but it tends to be enough time for me especially that I've used kind of a similar template, so it's been easier and easier as time goes on, 'cause I'll kind of just reuse that previous template and just tweak things as needed, so it's really become part of just my regular process, and I would advise researchers that are not doing this and that are involved in more generative work to definitely think about how can you actually make this and expect it and regular part of your process as well. 0:27:47.1 Matt Artz: So you're speaking a lot of that design thinking, obviously you're an advocate, you've also talked about other skills you have, you have some design experience, product management, so obviously all of those can contribute, but if somebody was looking to upscale in a particular thing, is there anything that you think has helped you the most? Yeah. 0:28:09.7 Paige Nuzzolillo: So I would say that the courses that I took, so I started... Depends on where you are in your career. If you're just starting out, I think that both mentorship, like a really structured mentorship, like I did with Nick Anderson on a bi-weekly basis, where I can really get structured feedback directly from my mentor, I think that that's a really incredible opportunity for someone that's just starting out, I also do think that a lot of the Nelson Norman Group courses that are part of either the US certificate, which is five courses, or the master certificate, which is 15, many of them are also, I would say more beginner to intermediate. Some of them are also geared towards managers, but I haven't really taken any of those as an individual contributor, but I think that... I think those are really two of, I would say some of the best way is to up-skill, find someone that you admire, that you're really interested in the work that they do, it can be someone that maybe isn't a formal mentor and you could approach them and ask them. I personally recommend trying to find someone though that actually does have a structured mentorship program, 'cause I do think it can be a little bit harder to kind of get regular feedback that you might need if you're just starting out. 0:29:36.3 Paige Nuzzolillo: I think if you're a little bit further on in your career, then I think having a more less structured mentorship is totally doable and then Nelson Norman Group courses. Yeah, I just think they're amazing. I think you can also choose specifically the ones that are in the areas that you feel like you need to up-skill in, so there's a really wide variety of courses that they have, some or more stats-focused, some are more design thinking. Some are more UX design even. Some of them are specific methods, like ethnographic methods and diary studies, also usability testing, so there's a lot also that are specific to methodologies that can be super helpful too, and then there's also some that are more, I would say, potentially more senior in terms of influencing stakeholders, I took one, I can't remember exactly the name of it, but something similar to that where it's actually about influence, I was actually... I think it was called Designing influence. So yeah, so I think that there's just a wide variety of courses you can take, and I also think, you know... Like I said, I think taking a contract, I think is just a huge way to get your foot in the door or break into the industry on, and also just get some project experience if you don't have any yet, and even if you do have some... 0:30:56.2 Paige Nuzzolillo: It's still just such a great way to build your portfolio and to get paid while doing it, and to also build your connections too, so you're constantly getting people from each contract that you go to, you're building your network, people are starting to know your work, and I think that's just an excellent career move in general, so... Yeah, so I would say those are probably the biggest things. I do think that having a portfolio in the first place is critical, so figuring out how can you get a portfolio if you don't have one yet, what are some of the stuff you can take to really create one? And I do think that having a contract role and also pro bono work or two ways to do that. 0:31:35.2 Matt Artz: So in a portfolio is something that's debated a bit, how do you think researchers should approach a portfolio? 0:31:42.3 Paige Nuzzolillo: Yeah, I think this is so difficult. Actually, I'm glad you asked. I actually know if I necessarily have an answer to this, I struggle with this. I'm involved in interviewing it indeed, and it's just really hard, you... By nature, research might not be as flashy and visually appealing as a UX design portfolio, so I think that's something that we can potentially struggle with as researchers also, there's probably a lot of sensitive data that we cannot share, so under NDA, there's just certain things we can't talk about... That also makes it really challenging to actually really flush out the story. I think what I've stuck with is mainly sharing my process and trying to share as much as I can, as in death as I can about my process, so how do I approach a question that's been posed by my team, how do I take that question during a kick-off call that I've had with my product team, with my design team, and how do I take that question and translate that into a research question that's answerable as well by research. So do that work, so show how you're doing that potentially, if that's part of your process, and then what are the tools you're using, what are specifically different artifacts that you produce throughout the entire process, do you have a road map that you do... 0:33:17.7 Paige Nuzzolillo: Do you plan a roadmap quarterly with your team that can also showcase some project management skills as well, and scoping projects in general. Do you have a kick-off document that you use, where you have the list of stakeholders, where you have the research questions, where you have notes from the kick-off, things like this, and obviously you can't share all that stuff, but can you show in The Soliton of it... So really just showcase how you would approach a research question, and then also, I think whatever images you are able to share or also visuals you can create on your own, which really demonstrate your process, I think is also a really great way to handle this. I do think that, you know, when you're interviewing, interviewers really are not going to be spending likely a lot of time looking at your portfolio, they're going to be scanning it and trying to get the most important information quickly at a glance, because they're looking at many of them... So I really think that trying to make things as visual as possible and as succinct as possible while also conveying the most important information that's critical, it's critical also just in presenting data as well and presenting insights. 0:34:36.6 Paige Nuzzolillo: So I think actually, I think it actually is a lot harder than including tons of detail... It's something I still am working on. I tend to be very, very stuck in details, and I do think it's a lot harder to look at the big picture, have all those details and to really see the big picture, and I think it's a critical... Absolutely critical skill for UX researchers, and not only when you're interviewing and developing our portfolio, but also as you're actually in the job too. 0:35:08.0 Matt Artz: Great in... So one last thing you're on, Indeed, I know you're involved in helping to spread the good work of all the researchers at indeed, and so would you tell us a little bit about the committee you're on and what you're trying to do to publicize some of that work? 0:35:25.1 Paige Nuzzolillo: Yeah, yeah, so I am on the editorial board for the indeed design blog, and the and design blog showcases work the researchers, designers, content folks, anyone in UX basically showcases the work that they've done at indeed can take the form of case studies can take the form of interviews with various people at indeed, lots of different kinds of articles and overall, if you're interested in working at indeed, are interested just in the work that we do and learning more about it, or as interested in general about what does it really mean to be a UX researcher and what does that work look like? And what are the kinds of things maybe that I'd be doing also, there are a lot of career articles as well, you can also... I just talked a lot about my career story, but there's a lot of other kinds of articles about that as well from other perspectives, but I think that overall, the design book just does a really great job of presenting the work that we do, and also potentially you know how people got to where they are. And so yeah, so I am writing an article that will be coming out soon, hopefully in January, but it's actually on design thinking and it's on exactly what I've talked about today a little bit, which is that foundational concept that really guides my work just around using research to create change and how can we do that? How can we create impact and how can we also utilize the tools of design thinking to really create change, to really instigate that change and really make sure that our team is really integrating the research that we've done in the product. 0:37:13.6 Paige Nuzzolillo: And not just letting it sit on a shelf, and so the article that I'm reading is going to have some tangible resources as well and templates that people can use to run both synchronous and asynchronous ideation sessions, specifically with their team to really have... You have your team really dive deeply into the insights and come up with solutions that are really graded in those insights, but yeah, so the design plug, lots of articles, and there's way more coming out as well as a dimension minus, but there's tons more that are in the works right now. So definitely have a full pipeline coming up for all these articles, so yeah, just stay tuned, but also they will be a lot more as well from a UX research perspective too. 0:37:56.7 Matt Artz: And if anybody wanted to get in touch with you... 0:38:00.1 Paige Nuzzolillo: Yeah, so you can contact me on LinkedIn, just Paige Nuzzolillo on LinkedIn, actually Paige Elaine Nuzzolillo, middle name Elaine. And also, my portfolios PaigeNuzzolillo.com. Also one more thing that I should mention too is that I did write an article on Medium, and I can try to make sure that it's posted on my LinkedIn so people can access it, but it does include insights from 12 UX researchers anthropologists and discussing how UX research is potentially a viable career option for those that are in the anthropology, and so I did primary research with 12 UX researchers and have a background in that, and that grew out of just really immense interest that was... That I saw when I was at the career expo for the American Anthropological Association in 2019. I had a table at that conference for the career expo, and I just had so many people coming to the table, and I really wanted to provide just a little bit more of a tangible resource for folks, so that article... I think it was written in 2019, I think, or 2020, but still very applicable, so I'll make sure that that's also available on my LinkedIn, so people can access that too. 0:39:23.4 Matt Artz: Page next. For coming on, I really appreciate your time. 0:39:25.5 Paige Nuzzolillo: Yeah, thanks so much, Matt, thanks for having me. 0:39:28.1 Matt Artz: Thank you all for listening to The Anthro to UX podcast. To learn everything, you need to break into UX, AnthroToUX.com. There, you will find all the podcast episodes and career coaching resources. Please like, share and subscribe. See you next time.