Podcast - SURF MASTERY podcast

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Konten disediakan oleh Michael Frampton and Surf Mastery Podcast. Semua konten podcast termasuk episode, grafik, dan deskripsi podcast diunggah dan disediakan langsung oleh Michael Frampton and Surf Mastery Podcast atau mitra platform podcast mereka. Jika Anda yakin seseorang menggunakan karya berhak cipta Anda tanpa izin, Anda dapat mengikuti proses yang diuraikan di sini https://id.player.fm/legal.

This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil

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QUALIFIED: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work with Shari Dunn | 284 33:58

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In this episode, we delve into the concept of being "qualified" in the workplace, examining who gets labeled as such, who doesn't, and the underlying reasons. We explore "competency checking"—the practice of scrutinizing individuals' abilities—and how it disproportionately affects underrepresented groups, often going unnoticed or unchallenged. Our discussion aims to redefine qualifications in a fair, equitable, and actionable manner. Our guest, Shari Dunn , is an accomplished journalist, former attorney, news anchor, CEO, university professor, and sought-after speaker. She has been recognized as Executive of the Year and a Woman of Influence, with her work appearing in Fortune Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, Ad Age, and more. Her new book, Qualified: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work , unpacks what it truly means to be deserving and capable—and why systemic barriers, not personal deficits, are often the real problem. Her insights challenge the narratives that hold so many of us back and offer practical solutions for building a more equitable future. Together, we can build workplaces and communities that don’t just reflect the world we live in, but the one we want to create. A world where being qualified is about recognizing the talent and potential that’s been overlooked for far too long. It’s not just about getting a seat at the table—it’s about building an entirely new table, one designed with space for all of us. Connect with Our Guest Shari Dunn Website& Book - Qualified: https://thesharidunn.com LI: https://www.linkedin.com/today/author/sharidunn TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thesharidunn Related Podcast Episodes: How To Build Emotionally Mature Leaders with Dr. Christie Smith | 272 Holding It Together: Women As America's Safety Net with Jessica Calarco | 215 How To Defy Expectations with Dr. Sunita Sah | 271 Share the Love: If you found this episode insightful, please share it with a friend, tag us on social media, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! 🔗 Subscribe & Review: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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We interview the best surfers in the world and the people behind them, so surfers can learn ways to improve their own surfing. The podcast is targeted to open-minded surfers who want to improve and progress their surfing as well as enhance their surf longevity & health. Each interview will educate the listener on ways to refine and progress their surfing and/or increase their surf longevity.

156 episode

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Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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156 episode

#Surf #Mastery #Tips #Michael Frampton #Sports #Podcasting Education #SURF MASTERY

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Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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109 How to Catch More Waves and Abolish Surfing Shame

4 hari yang lalu

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https://learn.surfmastery.com/wave-catching-academy-1 If you've ever felt frustration, shame, or disappointment from missing waves, this episode provides actionable drills and insights to help you surf with more confidence and consistency. 3 key techniques that can help surfers at all levels improve their wave-catching ability: Mastering timing, overcoming the fear of falling, and dealing with the emotional fear of failure. Click HERE to register or find out more about the Wave Catching Academy Tim Ferris - How I learned to Surf in 5 days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_c_FCTX0gk Transcript: Welcome back, or welcome to the Surf Mastery Podcast. The podcast that helps passionate, lifelong surfers to catch more waves, surf with more speed, style, and grace, and to gain wisdom and confidence in the water. I am your host, Michael Frampton. Today's episode will be another solo episode. That is a follow on from the episode that I released two days ago. And we will expand on catching waves and give you some solid tips to do that. Next week we've got another long form interview coming your way, all about surfing philosophy. So excited to release that one. So make sure you subscribe and stay tuned for that. In the last episode I was talking about a breakthrough I had in catching waves. And for some reason it didn't really translate into catching small, soft waves on a small wave shortboard. Which was something that I really wanted to do. I was lucky enough to live in an area where the waves were mostly pretty good all the time. They were mostly head high. But every now and then a nice small swell would come through. And I remember pulling up to the beach and the waves were small, only about waist high. But they were really nice. And it was no wind. Perfect shape to them. And there was no one else out. And I was so excited. And I grabbed my small wave shortboard and paddled out and spent at least 20 minutes. Just could not catch anything. any of these waves. Just could not figure it out. I just remember being so disappointed and frustrated and by now you've got a handful of people sitting in their cars watching, ready to come out surfing or decide whether to. So you're feeling shamed as well. And one of these surfers decided to come out and it was an older man in his 50s, on a board even smaller than mine, and he just paddled out and was just Catching these waves like any other wave, just gliding into them with ease, going so fast, doing roundhouse cutbacks, just blowing my mind, and meanwhile, I couldn't even catch any of these waves, let alone stand up and surf one, and the contrast from them. From going from being excited to go surfing to just feeling ashamed and disappointed and frustrated just was not only gut wrenching, but it left me confused because it was like, how is this guy doing it? The waves are so soft and slow. How is he surfing a shortboard? And I was so determined to figure it out. I ended up approaching him and He was, turns out he was a former pro, really friendly, and ended up getting some coaching from him, and it changed, had another breakthrough on small waves, because in surfing we often think it's quite simple, the wave comes towards the beach, and you paddle for it in the right part of the wave, and you glide in, and that's true for most waves, but when you start wanting to surf smaller waves. On a shortboard, you've really got to get an eye in for the details and what I noticed he was doing, which was pointed out, was he was waiting a bit longer, and really letting the white water hit him, which gave him enough momentum to, to get going on the wave, and if you want to surf a broad variety of Wave shapes and sizes, you need to be far more versatile and adaptable than you think. And, sometimes you really need to be able to let the whitewater hit you and come from behind the section with speed to get going on small waves. And once you learn that skill, it actually expands the take off zone for you. If you mis time a wave and the wave hits you, you can actually still come around the section. So learning to catch these smaller, softer waves. Helped me in all types of waves, and the drill that this surf coach got me to do is a really simple one, and this is it, tip number one, timing. I'll firstly describe this tip in a beginner friendly version, and then I'll Elaborate into how an intermediate or even advanced surfer can utilize it. So the key here is to stop paddling for waves. That's right. If you're a beginner, first of all you need to be on the right surfboard. Needs to be an 8 or a 9 foot soft top, depending on your height and weight. And no other surfboard is appropriate for a beginner. Stay away from places like First Point, Malibu. Go to a beach where you see surf schools take their groups of 50 tourists. That's the beach you want to practice this drill. And what you want to do is you want to stand in waist deep water, with your board facing towards the beach, hands in the middle of the board, holding each rail, and then wait. Wait until the white water is just about to hit the tail of your board, and then you jump. onto your board and forward to match the speed of the wave at the same time. And you land in your paddling position and that jump forward has allowed you to match the speed of the wave. And that's it, no paddling necessary. The focus here is getting the timing of the jump don't even worry about standing up at this stage for beginners. You're just looking to catch the wave with good timing without paddling. Play around with it. Wait until the wave has passed the tail of your board and is about to hit you and then try it. Just play around with the timing. Get really comfortable with catching waves in waist high water without paddling. For the intermediate and advanced surfers that are struggling to catch small waves, the drill is exactly the same. It's just the type of surfboard you'll be using. So for an intermediate surfer, you might be on a fiberglass mid length or your favorite sort of mid size soft top, and for your advanced surfer, just get on your small wave shortboard. But the drill is the same. No paddling, get the timing right. So how does this apply to catching unbroken waves for the intermediate and advanced surfer? When you're sitting on your surfboard and a small wave is approaching, you want to time two to four sprint paddles just as the wave is about to hit you. And if you've practiced the drill, as I mentioned, you'll be used to popping up in the whitewater and maintaining speed from that. Push because actually popping up and riding the wave in the turbulence of that white water is a lot harder than you think. And it's a skill that you might not have practiced in a while. You would have practiced it a lot when you were learning, but it's good to go back. So not only are you practicing Catching the wave in the whitewater, but you're also going to practice popping up and surfing those beginner waves. One of the most common mistakes at all levels is rushing. I see too many surfers just paddling frantically rather than being patient and timing some good sprint paddles. Watch really experienced surfers when they're in the right spot. They don't rush. They wait for the wave to engulf the back of the board, and then they execute like a breaststroke kick with their legs, combined with a couple of sprint paddles, and the board's buoyancy kind of pops them forward like a cork in water, and they just glide into the wave effortlessly. Sometimes a lot of the paddling for the wave Surfers do, is actually to get in the right position to be able to do that. And by no means am I saying don't paddle hard for waves. In fact, you need to be a strong paddler that can paddle hard for waves. The first step is to master the timing in broken whitewater waves. Tip number two would be overcoming the fear of getting hurt or held underwater. Now, this fear will never go away completely, it's natural, you should be cautious about getting hurt or drowning. But you can prepare for it so that it's not so overwhelming. The drill here is just to simply play in the white water. Just like kids at the beach. They love playing in the shore break, getting hit. tumbled around. They love feeling the power of the ocean. You should get comfortable with getting tumbled in the shore break, getting held under and having sand go everywhere. And if this makes you feel uncomfortable, you have to spend time doing this. I remember Tim Ferriss did a TV series called the Tim Ferriss experiment, where he tried to learn a bunch of skills as fast as possible by working with experts intensively for five days. He did golf, drumming, dancing, and surfing was one of them. And he. Got Laird Hamilton, and the first thing that Laird got him to do was to play in the whitewater. He had to get rid of that fear of being held under and rolled around. Because if you're afraid of what happens when you fall off or make a mistake, you simply can't be present. I strongly recommend you go and watch that episode. It's free on YouTube now. I'll put a link to that episode in the show notes. And I used to teach. Adult skateboarding as well, and the first thing that we'd learn is to fall safely on the grass. And then we'd progress to learning how to fall and slide safely with all the gear on. And only then can they be present enough to learn how to skate. Kids don't have this fear anywhere near as much because they're made of rubber and naivety, but you simply cannot learn anything without falling. Prepare and minimize the fear of falling. Choose a safe sandy swimming beach where there's lifeguards and stuff and practice this. You get a bodyboard as well, play around. Wear a wetsuit, helps with flotation. A tip that goes along with this one is you need to be a strong swimmer. You should be able to swim 500 meters non stop and 25 meters underwater. So if you can't do those two things, I highly recommend just going and getting some swimming lessons. Tip number three is overcoming the fear of failing. Now we just covered the physical fear of falling, but now we're talking about the emotional fear of failing. And the fear of failure is, it's tied to shame. The fear of looking bad in front of others. What's the solution? Practice tip one and two in a place where other surfers aren't. As I mentioned in tip one, stay out of the way. If you're a beginner, there's no need to go to A surf break where good surfers are. You can go to any swimming beach out of the way and find your own spot away from people and practice these drills. Find out where the local surf school takes their groups and does lessons and stay around there somewhere. There's, there are always nice sandy, flat, easy waves to practice this sort of stuff in. The fear of shame, it's never going to go away completely. The goal here is to get to a point where you feel confident and competent enough to surf with other surfers, despite the shame, and you should be able to focus on successfully catching the wave, not on how you look. Because even when you go to a place where good surfers aren't, the fear of failure is still going to come up. There's a certain amount of that you're just going to have to push through until your skills improve. The most important thing is just stay safe, stay out of the way, and if the desire to get better is stronger than your fear of failure, you'll put the hours in. Because surfing is hard, it takes time, there's no way around that. But these three tips will help you to get there fastest. So to summarize, you're going to practice the timing by catching white water waves in waist high water without paddling. You're going to play around in the shore break and get used to what happens when you fall. As well as making sure that you're a strong swimmer and you're comfortable being underwater. And you're going to practice these drills away from surf breaks where other surfers are watching and judging. And you're going to make sure that you're doing it at the right spot. Now if you're truly serious about learning the art of catching waves and overcoming the shame, the frustration and the disappointment of missing waves and watching others. Then I've got good news for you. Registrations are open for the Wave Catching Academy which starts up very soon. There is no need for you to spend the years that I spent guessing, overthinking, and struggling to figure these things out on your own. And that's why I created the Wave Catching Academy so you can fast track your progress. You'll go from being hesitant and ignored in the lineup to being someone that catches waves with confidence and competence. No more getting dropped in on, no more getting snaked. You'll understand positioning and how to read waves, and of course, how to catch any wave that you like. Registrations are open until the 7th of March, but numbers are limited as well, so Get in quick. The first 10 people who join will also get a free one on one session with me. So if you're serious about transforming your surfing and finally feeling like a surfer instead of a kook, it starts with learning how to catch waves. So click the link in the description or the show notes, or go to surfmastery. com and join in the Wave Catching Academy. Hope to see you in there, and until next week, keep surfing. For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner Surfer to advaned.…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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108 Catching Waves - The Foundation Of Good Surfing

6 hari yang lalu

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https://learn.surfmastery.com/wave-catching-academy-1 https://surfmastery.com Catching Waves: From Surfing Anxiety and shame, to Confident Rides In this episode of the Surf Mastery Podcast, the host reveals his transformative journey in surfing—from struggling with how to surf to mastering techniques that allow him to catch more waves, even in challenging conditions with bigger waves. He discusses his evolution from an uncertain surfer to one who embraces effective surf coaching and hones his paddling technique, which proved essential for improving his performance. Listeners gain practical insights into how to surf confidently, overcome obstacles, and elevate their surfing skills for a truly rewarding experience. For more surfing tips visit www.surfmastery.com For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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107 The Parallels of Surfing and Golf: Tiffany Joh’s Insights on Golf, Surfing, and Finding Flow

20 hari yang lalu

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What can surfing teach us about golf? - What can golf teach us about surfing? How does a former LPGA pro balance technique with pure joy in both sports? Whether you're chasing consistency in golf, mastering the perfect wave, or just trying to stay calm under pressure, Tiffany Joh’s story offers a fresh perspective on finding balance between intensity and flow. As a retired LPGA pro-turned-surfing enthusiast and national golf coach, Tiffany reveals surprising connections between the worlds of golf, surfing, and music, along with how mindset and play can fuel long-term success. In this episode, you'll discover: The surprising parallels between surfing and golf and how these lessons can improve performance in both. Mindset secrets for managing pressure and staying in the zone during competition. Why consistency trumps intensity —and how 20-minute sessions might be the key to progress in any skill. Listen now to learn how Tiffany Joh’s journey from pro golf to surfing can inspire you to embrace consistency, mindset mastery, and the joy of lifelong learning. Notable Quotes: "The best way to improve is to be really consistent. I'd take 20 minutes every day over six hours on the weekend." "Golf and surfing both require a balance between technique and feel—you work on your craft like it’s the most important thing, but compete like it doesn’t matter." "Surfers and golfers attract the same personalities. Both can be super personal or really social, depending on what you’re looking for." "In golf, you never wait for perfection before stepping into competition—just go with what you have and make it work." "Pressure is good. You’ve practiced it. You’ve been here before. Now just swing." Key Points Tiffany grew up in San Diego and started playing golf at age 12 after being inspired by Sari Pak's iconic win at the 1998 US Women's Open. Tiffany started surfing at age 24 or 25 during her off-season from professional golf. Tiffany sees parallels between surfing and golf in terms of the balance between technique and feel, and the pursuit of something difficult. Tiffany's musical background initially hindered her golf development due to the perfectionist mindset in music. Tiffany emphasizes the importance of consistency over intensity in both surfing and golf for improvement. Tiffany uses visualization techniques and focuses on her target to improve her putting in golf. Tiffany prefers to have a limited number of surfboards (3) and golf clubs, replacing them selectively based on needs. Tiffany has not been to a wave pool yet but is open to trying it despite potential pressure. Outline Tiffany's Golf Career Tiffany grew up in San Diego and began playing golf at age 12 after being inspired by Sari Pak's win at the 1998 US Women's Open. Their father, a professor at San Diego State University, enrolled them in a free junior golf program where they became increasingly competitive. They played for UCLA during college and qualified for the professional tour after graduating, spending 11 years on the LPGA. After retiring in July 2021, they transitioned to coaching, starting with a Division 2 program in San Diego before moving to USC, and recently took a position as a coach for the US national team. Introduction to Surfing Tiffany started surfing relatively late, around age 24-25, during a surf trip to Nicaragua with Holly Beck, leaving their golf clubs behind. Upon returning from the trip, they got a board and began surfing consistently, often doing dawn patrol sessions before afternoon golf practice. This routine of combining surfing and golf became part of their yearly schedule, frequently taking surf trips after the golf season ended. Similarities Between Golf and Surfing Both sports can be frustrating due to the effort required versus the results achieved. Consistency is key in both sports, with frequent short sessions being more beneficial than occasional long ones. Both require a balance between technique and feel, with the ability to adapt to changing conditions. Golf and surfing can be either introspective and personal or highly social, depending on the individual's mood and goals. Both involve a lot of waiting or downtime between moments of action. Trying too hard often leads to worse performance in both sports, emphasizing the importance of relaxation and flow. Coaching Philosophy As a golf coach, Tiffany focuses less on technique and more on mental aspects, course management, and helping players handle tournament-day emotions. They emphasize the importance of practicing under pressure to prepare for real competition scenarios. Drills that push players to the edge of frustration are used to help them learn to manage emotions and make adjustments under pressure. Impact of Surfing on Golf Approach Learning to surf helped Tiffany develop a more relaxed approach to golf. Being a beginner in surfing and enjoying it despite poor performance helped maintain perspective in their professional golf career. The casual approach to surfing positively influenced their golf game, reminding them to enjoy the process even when not performing at their best. Staying Connected to the Target In both golf and surfing, staying connected to the target is emphasized. In golf, focusing beyond the ball and looking at a spot slightly in front while putting helps maintain awareness of the overall goal rather than getting too focused on technique. Similarly, in surfing, looking ahead at the wave rather than down at the board is important. Equipment Preferences Throughout their golf career, Tiffany has owned numerous sets of clubs, often replacing individual clubs based on course conditions or new technology. Driver technology changes rapidly, making it beneficial to use the latest models. In contrast, their approach to surfboards is much simpler, owning only three boards for different conditions, mirroring their advice to keep surfing equipment simple, especially for beginners. Fears and Cautionary Experiences In golf, Tiffany's biggest fear is accidentally hitting a spectator or volunteer with a golf ball. In surfing, their most frightening experience was getting tangled in a lobster trap rope while surfing near a cliff in Mexico, which taught them to be more cautious about ocean conditions. Advice for Surfers Key advice for surfers is to prioritize consistency over intensity. Frequent, short sessions (20-30 minutes) are recommended rather than infrequent long sessions, leading to steady improvement and greater enjoyment of the sport. Transcription Michael Frampton Hello! How are you? Sorry, I think we just had some technical problems. I saw that you had joined the meeting, and then—anyway, we're here now. Cool. All right. Well, thank you so much for doing this. First of all, I'm super stoked! Cool, let me just get the recording going. Okay, and you've got AirPods in—awesome. All right. Okay, so can we start? Would you be able to do a little bit of a self-introduction? I think, you know, your background as an athlete and as a coach—and then we'll get into the surfing stuff. Tiffany Joh Yeah, sure! So, I grew up in San Diego, which is a great surf town. Unfortunately, I did not surf growing up. I think I lived just far enough inland—about half an hour—that I was too lazy to make it all the way to the beach. I actually grew up playing a lot of instruments and wasn’t really much of an athlete. But in 1998, a woman named Se Ri Pak from South Korea won the U.S. Women's Open in iconic fashion. On the last hole, her ball almost went into the water, and she took off her socks and shoes, waded into the water, and ended up winning in a playoff. Pretty much the very next week, I picked up a golf club. My parents didn’t know much about golf, and I was only 12 at the time. The only reason our family was even watching was that this was the first time we had seen a South Korean female athlete on TV. It was incredibly inspiring for us as a people. So, the very next week, I picked up a golf club. My parents didn’t really know anything about golf, but my dad was a professor at San Diego State University. There was a free junior golf program right next to campus, and I think in his mind, he thought, "Perfect. This is free babysitting. I can just drop off my kid and not worry about it during the summer." That’s pretty much what he did, and I ended up getting more competitive through that free program. Eventually, I got recruited by a couple of colleges and ended up playing for UCLA. After I graduated, I qualified for the pro tour and played on the LPGA for 11 years. I retired in July of 2021, and the very next week, I started an assistant coaching position at a Division II program in North County, San Diego. Over the past couple of years, I’ve been working at USC, which is ironic since it’s a big-time rival of UCLA. Just this past month, I took on a new role as a coach for the U.S. national team, which is my new gig now. Michael Frampton Oh wow that's an impressive athletic background and resume wow and coaching now that's awesome okay so so when did thanks for that what when did surfing come into the picture? Tiffany Joh So it's actually a really interesting story so I don't know if you're super familiar with you know the way the LPGA tour works but there's actually like a developmental tour kind of like the equivalent of the QS going into the world like the championship tour so straight out of college I actually played on it's called the Epson tour so I played on the Epson tour for like a year and then ended up kind of getting like partial status on the LPGA tour so I was kind of jumping back and forth and and in my mind it's like the best way to mentally play your first year of professional golf because like you're just so grateful to be playing any given week, right? So I would go play in these, you know, developmental tour events and I would play well and then it would just like translate automatically to the very next week when I played on like the big tour. So I ended up playing really well, playing my way to better status and then my second year I had full status and I played awful like missed every single cut like did horrible and by the end of the year so there's two ways to qualify to get your LPGA tour card. One way is to spend a year on that developmental tour and the top 10 ranked players at the very end of the year get their tour card. The other way is to go to Q school which is this like gnarly two week long high pressure tournament and by the end of it 20 women get their cards for the following year. So knowing that I had pretty much played my way into a position where I was going to have to go. back to Q-School. I think I intuitively knew that I was super burnt out from the season and really discouraged. So I actually, at the very end of the season before I had to go to Q-School, I had like two months before I had to start getting ready for it. I actually booked this surf trip with Paul Lee Beck, who's another guest that you had on your show. And so that was down in Nicaragua. And so I flew down there, like left the club at home. There's no golfers down there anyway. And I ended up just like learning down there. And then I came back and right away got aboard and started going pretty consistently in the morning, like driving the half hour to the beach. And then I got into this great routine where I would go and do dump patrol. I didn't know enough about like reading the conditions. I just kind of paddled out no matter what. And then I would come home, like eat some lunch. And then I would go practicing the afternoon. And then a couple of months after I went back to Q-School, ended up breathing through got second. and I think ever since then it's been kind of part of my yearly routine that after the season is over when we have some time, I just go do some epic, I call it a treat to yourself, surf trip somewhere. Michael Frampton Cool. So how old were you when you started surfing? Tiffany Joh So I had to have there in my last year, I was probably 24, 25. Michael Frampton Yep, okay. Do you think having that background as a professional athlete and golfer helped you to learn surfing faster than others? Tiffany Joh I don't know if there were any like actual like direct ways that it translated, but I think there's something to be said for pursuing something that's really hard and really difficult to do. I definitely think that I haven't played a ton of other sports, but surfing and golf both have to be quite frustrating in terms of the energy and you know the effort that put in and what you actually get out of it. So I think it's kind of that pursuit of something really difficult. So I do think that maybe that mindset really translated to help me maybe improve little bit faster than a normal person. Michael Frampton So maybe you got over some of the frustrations of surfing faster than others because it's similar in golf. Tiffany Joh Yeah, and I think there's something about maybe this is for for all hobbies or sports, but like, you know, I do think that the best way to improve is to be really consistent and both surfing and golf. Like, you know, I'll take a person who's paddling out for 20, 30 minutes every day over the person that every other weekend is putting like six hours in the water. Like, there's something, I think, I don't know if it's something with like your brain, but something important that happens in between all these sessions. So it was interesting that the way that I approached surfing was really similar to the way that I approached I'm a big fan of like a bunch of mini sessions, so, you know, even when I was playing professionally, I would like break up my session or my practice sessions into like three or four throughout the day and I would go do something and come back because there's something about that back and forth that helped me kind of process something. Michael Frampton Are you a golf nerd? Like did you really nerd out about technique and get multiple coaches and dive right into it? Tiffany Joh You know, I'm not and I've never been. I think one of the best, one of the funniest stories, there was one offseason where I had to get my clubs with regrets. So I just went to just some random pro shop in the area and I brought in my clubs and the guys and they were so excited and I was what's the kick point on this? What's, what's, you know, the shaft flex, I don't know, it was purple and I liked it, but which is funny because that's exactly how I am with surfing whenever we go to beach and people are like, oh, what's the swell direction? Like, what's the wind? I'm like, I don't know how it looks wet. Michael Frampton So what's your how would you describe your role as a golf coach? Are you not focused on the technique and stuff so much? Tiffany Joh Is it more about the head game or? Yeah, I think, you know, at the college level, especially this new generation of golfer, I mean, they've been getting instruction, they've been doing fitness training since they were like eight, nine years old, and they are so polished by the time they get to us that a lot of what we do is kind of like helping them manage emotions on tournament day, kind of helping them with some course management, like, you know, plotting their way through the course. Just, you know, like, you know, all of like the little things, and I think the little details that at this level actually make a bigger difference. Michael Frampton Okay, so just sort of eliciting them to get into the zone at the start of the round. Tiffany Joh Great. Michael Frampton And do you use those tools yourself, if the surface is particularly challenging and you're feeling the pressure or? Tiffany Joh No, I mean, honestly, I'm not really good enough to feel any pressure out in the water. think any time I get out there and regardless of what happens or how many times I go over the fault or whatever it's in me, I'm just so grateful to be out there. So I think I actually do think in a lot of ways, when I started surfing, it really helped my mind set in golf at a professional level. You're always going to take things a little bit too seriously, but it was kind of refreshing to go do this thing that I was horrible at and still enjoy doing it. It's difficult being a retired professional golfer now because I still have these really high expectations, but I don't put in the time and the work to really meet those expectations. So pretty much every time I go out there, I'm pretty frustrated, but I think with surfing, I'm always so happy to be out in the water that it was a really great thing to try to translate into my golf game. Michael Frampton Interesting. So your casual approach to surfing helped you took some of that into your golf? Tiffany Joh Yeah, absolutely. I think surfing in golfing there's so many parallel, but one of them is, you know, oftentimes the harder you try, like the worse it gets, you know, the more pressure you put into something, like the less, I don't know, flow you have or what have you. So sometimes it's with golf, I, one of my coaches and those really young said the secret is to work on your craft. Like, it's the most important thing in the world, but to compete like nothing matters. Michael Frampton Okay, so all of the hard work is done at the driving range, not when you're actually playing, is that what you mean by that? Tiffany Joh Yeah, and I think, you know, or on the putting green or the chipping green, and I think when you, a lot of the times when we're trying to figure out what thrills or tests or games we're doing in practice, a lot of it is to just push ourselves to like the very edge of the right? Not make it so difficult that or so impossible to complete that you quit, but to really like push you to the edge of being really frustrated so that when you get onto the golf course, you're almost recreating that feeling and you know how to deal with it because you've practiced that before. So in a lot of ways, you know, when people try to do, you know, putting drills or something and it's like a must make situation, they try to make it so there's as much pressure on themselves as possible. So when they come down to the last hole. a U.S. Open and they have to make a six footer to win or whatever. They're like, all these emotions that I'm feeling, like I've practiced this and I've been here before and I know the appropriate adjustments to make. Michael Frampton So you're giving yourself confidence in the practice? Tiffany Joh Yeah. I think everyone under pressure has some kind of tendency, right? So for me, I'm a very fast paced energetic person. So, if I'm feeling nervous, I'll start walking fast, I'll start talking fast, start speaking fast. And in a lot of ways, that starts to mess up my rhythm. So in practice, if I put myself under pressure and I practice consciously trying to slow myself down just to counteract, you know, how fast I go, then when I'm under pressure in a tournament, I can be like, all right, I know what I do, I know what my tendency is, like, this is how I'm going to adjust. Michael Frampton You mentioned music and I actually, I saw on your Instagram a clip of you, but singing and playing guitar. It sounded amazing by the way. sing beautifully. Do you see parallels between music and golf and surfing? Tiffany Joh A little bit. I think actually in a lot of ways, my music go background kind of hindered my golfing development just because... Yeah, I think there's this aspect of music that's like... So I played like in the marching band. was a concert pianist and played the violin at the little kid and a lot of it was like, I'm gonna perfect this and then once it's perfect, I'm gonna perform, right? But a lot of golf and I think what I see with a lot of, you know, this newer generation is... They wait for things to be perfect before they take it to a turn of it. But like, your golf is never gonna be perfect. Like, you know, the tiger was the best player in the world. world and he wasn't even perfect. He didn't play a perfect round of golf. So there's kind of this attitude with I think all athletes need to have. And it's, I'm just going to go out with whatever I have. And I'm going to make it work. And I think it's a really difficult transition when you come from a musical background. So when I was a little kid, Yo-Yo Ma had this practice routine where, you know, within a piece of musical composition, there's all these measures. So he used to have this, he called it like a five quarter drill. So he would play the first measure, and then he would move a quarter over. And every time he played it perfectly, he would move a quarter over. But if he messed up once out of the five, he would move them all back. And then he would play the first and second measure together, first and second, third measure together until he was playing through the entire composition five times in a row, perfect, which is insane. It must have taken forever. But that's kind of the mentality you kind of, you learn to have a music, whereas sometimes I think with like their thing and golf, it's so condition dependent and it's never going to be exactly the way that you envision it and you kind of need to learn how to make adjustments on the fly and be okay with like nexting up and recovering. So I do think sometimes that like in a lot of ways they're different. Now I do think that all of those things, all three of those things require a lot of practice and that kind of is beneficial and anything that you end up doing. Michael Frampton I guess with music makes me think you were referencing a particular piece of music, not just music in general. And whereas I guess golf and surfing in particular is more like a jam session, you're not going into it with a particular way of playing or a song to play. You're just going in to be in tune with the way that the wind is on the course or the way that it's conditions I was surfing. Tiffany Joh Yeah, I think in a lot of ways, like, I think most athletics is probably more like improvisational, right? So, um, but, and I think this was maybe another parallel, I think, um, a lot. So I don't, I came from like a classical background. So everything was like, you just go buy the book, you go buy like whatever the composer wrote for you. But I do remember when I was in third grade, I met this kid from Kentucky who taught himself like jazz improvisational piano and it was so impressive. But he was telling me like, you put in all this work on the fundamentals, you learn all the scales, you learn all the like different chords. So, and then you earn the like kind of the privilege of having fun as you get to improvise. So I thought that was like a really cool thing because I think like, I definitely see the same thing with surfing. Like, I don't know a ton of maneuvers, but when I see someone who's really good and they, you know, have their floater that comes back and everything. They put in a lot of work to get their fundamentals down so that when they go out, they can have a ton of fun and be like very like improvisational and water. Michael Frampton Yeah. Yeah, I've always thought surfing is kind of like improvisation or improvisational music, whereas, you know, if you wanted to play that way, it's still important for you to practice your scales and do your ear training and understand your instrument and etc. But the reason you're doing that strict practice is so that you can jam and improvise not necessarily to perform a piece perfectly and that's where I sort of maybe see the analogy between music and surfing. Tiffany Joh Yeah, I agree. Michael Frampton Yeah, because most people don't approach it that way, but I think you see that in this swing and... All the different clubs at the driving range etc. So that when they do go out and play on the course They don't have to necessarily think about it. They just play the game right sure You just you mentioned that there were a lot of parallels between surfing and golf What what what comes to mind and why did you say that? Tiffany Joh I think just like the Exactly kind of along the lines of what we're talking about this like balance of like technique, but then also like feel right so in a lot of mental coaches and golf talk about like when you should be working on technical things and when you should just go completely on feel and and the consensus is that Before like you know in the week leading up to a tournament There's a certain line and everyone is maybe a little bit different where you like work really hard on your technique, but at a certain point, once you're in the midst of competition, you kind of throw it out the window and you kind of just have to react. It is actually, I mean, so I think I'd only been searching for maybe two or three years and I was just learning to like how the waves would go down the line, but I was super into it. And I had a friend that played on floor with me who came down to San Diego to visit all the club manufacturers in the area and then we went and played Tory Pines and afterwards, I kind of looked, know, La Hoya is right there and I'm like, she was kind of fun. do you mind before we get French if I just have a lot for like 20 minutes? And she's like, yeah, I'll just sit here and watch. And I got out of water and I was like, well, you know, what'd you think? She was like, you know, you love surfing, you invest so much time and money and energy and I just, I kind of thought you'd feel a little bit better. It was like, such a dagger to the heart, but my response was, Imagine if, you know, someone was trying to learn how to hit a golf ball for the first time, but every time they wanted to hit it, they had to sprint from 40 yards away, take six other people, and then like the ball might move somewhere else. imagine how long it would take to like get better, because you don't have any opportunity to like in the rain, any type of muscle memory or whatever. So in my mind, I was like, that's what surfing feels like to me. feels like I'm just paddling around, just like trying to get an opportunity to get all to get to my feet. And you know, in a couple of years later, we played an LPG event in Hawaii, got my tape back, because we paddled out to like 10 news or something in Waikiki, she kind of got for a firsthand glimpse of how hard it was to win at a surf, but I do think that like it's similar in that respect, right? You almost do, you have to like earn your, your, like, right? to things and I think golf at least is semi-accessible at times because you could just go to a dragon, but like to go out to a golf course and to play with other people it's pretty daunting and I think um I think for a long time I didn't really appreciate enough people who started golf late in life because I was so young that I don't remember this beginning stage of you know having to put in four or five years to get good enough to feel confident to actually go out to a golf course and play but having done that on like the surf side I'm like okay now when I go to the diving range and I see some you know 30-something year old woman learning for the first time I'm like I understand you know yeah interesting I guess golf is quite similar to surfing and in that way especially you think it might take you four hours to play 18 holes but each shot only lasts Michael Frampton what half a second? Tiffany Joh Yeah. Michael Frampton So there's actually not that much golf. Tiffany Joh It's yeah. Yeah, it's a lot of walking. It's a lot of like, hunting and drinking for some people. But I, uh, it's just, and it's a small surfing. I'm like, how much time did I actually spend surfing? Like 40 seconds today? Like I think most of it was just sitting there and like, and I do think the other reason why it kind of attracts the same personality, though, is it's kind of whatever you want to get out of it, right? So it can be super introspective and personal and it could also be really, really social. And I think any given time, depending on your mood or, you know, at what point in your life you are, like, it can change, right? So I mean, there were times when, uh, I played golf only because I was trying to get better. And I was just trying to like improve my game. I had no desire to, you know, I had no desire to like interact with other people and I was just in my own little cocoon. And then there's other times where I don't even care about any of the technique or getting better. I just want to go and walk around a golf course for four hours with my buddies and have a good time. I think surfing to me is really similar where sometimes I just want to power a lot of well and I want to like try to find a little shoulder to myself and not talk to anyone and I want it to be really personal. And then there's other times where I just want to be out in the water with a bunch of my buddies or any, in my case these days like sitting in the parking lot drinking coffee and looking at the waves. But there's something like that can be inherently really social or really personal depending on what you're looking for that day. Michael Frampton Yeah, that's a great golf surfing analogy. So true. Yeah. I certainly have gone through stages where I'm so focused on getting better and then other times, you know, it's Lucy Goosey and just going with the flow. Oh, I think both of those types of sessions inform each other. Have you gone through stages like that when surfing, like have you had any surf coaching done at all? Tiffany Joh So I actually, well, this is another guest on your pod, Ruhill has this surf retreat called surf simply, and the second year I was surfing, that was my, you know, off season trip, and he just completely, him and his coaching staff are insanely amazing in everything they do. They're like, absolutely unicorn, but I mean, they just blew my mind with like the technical aspect of it, and you know, they film everything, they do like lectures, and as much as I think on the surface, I maybe act like, you know, very mellow, and I don't really care about the technique. Like, at my core, I still want to get as good as I can, regardless of what level I end up being at. So that actually is really motivational. because I ended up making a couple friends locally and this is our big COVID activity is we would you know since no one was really working so we would go to the beach and we would trade off at a camera I would put on a tripod and so everyone would do like 20 minutes at the camera and then afterwards I mean not that we really even knew what we were looking for but we kind of had an idea of what looks good and what looks bad and so afterwards we would grab a couple of rectus burritos and we kind of laugh at each other's lifestyles and then and then also try to start to critique each other like why you know we bogged a rail here or why like this you know we didn't you know completely cut back and and doing that it was so helpful because it's kind of listening to your voice on an answering machine it's never quite what you think it is really much so it was really helpful because in golf we talk a lot about feel versus real so feel you know with everything you do if you're trying to make some kind of change in your golf swing You have to exaggerate it because when you bring it up to full speed, it's not going to be as much because your body wants to keep doing the same thing it's been doing. And then when you get into competition, you're automatically going to revert back to what you're used to doing. And so if you look at some of the PGA Tor and LPG for guys and gals, when they're like doing their practice wing, it looks grotesque. Because they're trying to exaggerate a specific movement because they know once I speed it up. And I think that's a lot of what I learned with the coaching at Sir Simply and then also building ourselves and then watching it back later. Because if you watch it right afterwards, you kind of have an idea of like, this is what it felt like. It felt like I cut back all the way to the white water and then you look at it and you're like, but I didn't. So maybe the next time I have to really exaggerate that. And I think that's one of the things that Ru and his team taught me is you got to do something like too much. You got to over. do it and then kind of find the middle ground from there. Um, and that was just like so helpful to me. Um, as I, you know, trying to figure out to do this whole surfing thing. Michael Frampton Yeah, no, that's a great point. I like that. Um, do you remember Happy Gilmore? Tiffany Joh Yeah. Chubs? Yep. Michael Frampton It's all in the hips. Tiffany Joh Is that true? Yes. Okay. And I had no idea, but surfing is true. Michael Frampton Yeah. The center, the center of gravity, center of mass, I should say. Tiffany Joh Yeah. I think anything where you're kind of mixing up like weight shift and rotation, like hips have got to have a really big part of it. Michael Frampton Yeah. I see a lot of similarities between, um, good surfing technique and good golf technique. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, it's certainly something notice looking at you Instagram. and the way you surf you, you don't really have a post dance, which is great. And that might be just because you're so used to, because a golf swing stance is quite an upright stance. Tiffany Joh Yeah. Well, I, you know, I think like if you look at anything athletically, I kind of never understood like the really side on like, I think you call it tacoing because you're like you're bent over and folded over. Because like in golf, you're always like the biggest thing is regardless of what's going on here, you're really engaging with your target. And so if you're not kind of squared off looking at your target, then like I've seen, you know, two types of golfers, the ones that maybe everything looks messed up from here, but they're always like looking out towards like the flag or the fairway or whatever they're hitting to. And I'm like, that guy's got a chance, you know? but the one who has like complete blinders on and he's just looking at the golf ball and isn't really even connected to his target at all. mean that guy, have no idea when that golf ball is going. Regardless of what's happening technique-wise with his golf swing, I actually have a funny story, another golfster parallel. So I was playing the Scottish Open and this was maybe, I think this was maybe like the best round I ever had when I was playing on tour, but at the time I was kind of struggling with my putting and so my putting coach who's this Canadian guy came out to the Scottish Open and he's looking at my stroke and looking at the way I was reading everything and he was like, you know, everything looks really solid. You just look really disconnected from the target and so he was kind of giving me all these like metaphors and sports of people like being really engaged with their targets, free car drivers and all that stuff and I was like none of these are landing and he's like, okay, sir, for a girl. He's like, who's your favorite surfer in the world? And I was like, ah! It's got to be step he'll more like she's amazing and he's like okay Give me a second and he goes on Google images and he pulled up this image of her doing like a backside backside bottom turn And she's looking up at the lip and everything is like looking up at that lip And he's like it doesn't if you're like so focused on what's going on right in front of you And you forget about the target you're going to like he's like you don't stand a chance And so we ended up doing a lot of like visualization stuff where we took you know like a chalk pen and we you know drew out all these dots on the green and then I would basically just like roll balls over them and Didn't hit a ton of cuts I was just kind of doing a lot of visualization stuff and then went out the next day and just putted out of my mind Like had one of the best putting grounds in my life And that's like I don't know if it was like you know a direct result of that, but I do think it made a really big impact on me to like To like regardless of what I'm doing to like never forget where the target Michael Frampton good is and where I'm going. Yeah. So when you actually hit the ball, are you looking at the ball in that moment? Tiffany Joh So yeah, I think like when you take it away, like you are kind of looking at it, but you're not really focused on it. You're just trying to swing. But there are a lot of professional golfers who when they putt don't look at the ball and they look at the whole because like the stroke is so short. Like surely you're not going to miss the ball with the stroke. That's like a foot long. So there's a lot of people who when they really start to struggle with like gauging the speed or how hard they have to hit it or something like that, then they try to get themselves as target oriented as possible. Michael Frampton Interesting. So as part of that, do you sort of open up your peripheral vision? Tiffany Joh Yeah, so I think for me when I putt like my eyes are kind of Michael Frampton going towards the ball but I'm actually looking at a spot a little bit in front and I'm just trying to roll the ball over that spot because you know like when you're putting you're reading a lot of break so you're kind of trying to figure out like is this gonna break right is we gonna break left another thing that's kind of like surfing and then I like to kind of like take a spot and roll it over that spot but also kind of keeping in mind like where the hole is as well um so I'm I look like I'm looking at the ball but I'm actually not really focusing there interesting hmm so I guess it's kind of like um have you ever learned to juggle uh not really but I think I know you don't look you don't look at your hands right you kind of look up and you're you should see where the ball is coming and you should sort of know where your hand is and where the ball is going to be it makes me think that's sort of that sort of principle so you you have quite a You have a sharp awareness of where the ball is and where the club is without necessarily looking directly at it. Tiffany Joh Right. Michael Frampton And that's, is that something that's purposely developed or does that just sort of happen over time with hours on the course? Tiffany Joh I think just intuitively with time, and I think a lot of it is just, you know, you say a lot something and then you try to grasp that straw to figure out what else I'm going to work. I'm sure at some point people spiral will not be like, where am I looking? Maybe I should try looking somewhere else. So I do think, and I don't think, you know, everyone is like that. I'm sure there are some people that do you like to look at a spot on the ball and then everything else is secondary, but that's just kind of where I felt like I've had it the most effectively. Just because I think if I just focus on the ball, I get too wrapped up in what my stroke is doing. And especially in putting like the stroke is so overrated. like anyone with a little bit of athleticism should be able to hit a ball like six inches on mine. that's all you really need to do with a pot. Michael Frampton So that makes it makes a lot of sense. It really does. Even just the fact of it just purposely opening up your peripheral vision is actually a very calming thing to do. So it calms your nervous system down. Did you do any specific visual training like eye exercises? Tiffany Joh No, a lot of it was like we'd use the chalk pen to like put out dots and then we would take like a straight one and do some dots along the line. And then we would do like a big right to left your and a left to right because I mean 99% of putting is just matching up your line in your speed because it can be different. mean you can make a 8-foot put on like five different lines depending on how hard it you hit it, like you can kind of drip and dye something in or you can kind of hammer it and like not put as much break. So a lot of it was kind of that like some green reading exercises. So but yeah. Michael Frampton If what's your biggest fear and golf? Tiffany Joh My biggest fear and golf. That's a good question. think maybe like this is slightly irrational but I was playing in the British Open one year and a girl I was playing with hit a volunteer with a drive like in the head and we heard it from like 250 yards away and there was blood everywhere and he ended up being fine and he was actually like oh yeah I like my head bumped it over there and like his head was bleeding and he had a towel to it and he apparently I checked on him that night and he came back the next day to volunteer again but like that I think think that scares me so much. you know, professional golf, when there's a lot of spectators, they kind of line the fairways. So it looks very narrow. And it looks like if you hit it off line, that you could kill someone. And I think that's definitely my biggest fear involved. Michael Frampton What's your biggest fear in surfing? Tiffany Joh I don't know. I mean, I'm not like a fearless surfer by any like I don't like going out in big or tough condition. I do think there was one. So we live really close to the Mexican border. So my friend and I, my friend, Kat and I like to drive down and surf like Rosarito and stuff. it's not like super safe. Like there's no life guards or anything. And there was one day and this was when I was early on in my surfing career and like didn't have any ocean knowledge at all where it was kind of thing you know next to this cliff and it was like super high tide and it was a ton of swell and like some of the fishermen had put out all these lobster tracks and I wiped out on a wave and I got my foot like tangled in the rope around the lobster trap and I think that's maybe the most scared I've ever been in the water but um since then I've learned I've learned not to go out at super high tide with a ton of swell if the waves are breaking right against the cliffs yeah huh if you could only play golf with one club what is that club one club am I like just for enjoyment or am I trying to shoot a good score if there's a different answer to both those versions that I'm interested to hear both well I love putting it's my favorite part of the game like I love you know all the intricacies of it and stuff so If there was only one part of the game I could do, I would just cut. But I think if I was trying to shoot a good score, I would probably take like a seven iron because I feel like I could hit pretty much any shot I need to with that. And you can always put with it too. Michael Frampton Yep. Okay. What's your favorite surfboard? Tiffany Joh So, um, much like golf, I'm not someone that owns like a ton of boards. Um, have three, I have like a nine four nose writer, I have like a eight to egg and I just got like a like a seven to egg. Right now it's the eight to egg. Um, it's like a, it's a jock haul who's like a local shaper in San Diego. Um, when I actually bought the longboard on Craigslist when I first got into surfing and that was a Josh haul and I loved it so much and I contacted Josh to get the egg shape. And he was asking me all these questions, like, you know, do you want to type in, do you like speed egg and. I was like, I don't know. But I want it to be the purple that the exit emoji is. And so that's what I'm to go on. Michael Frampton Oh, shout out to Josh. Yeah, I've got one of his boards. Tiffany Joh It's one of my favorite boards. Love it. Michael Frampton Yeah, that's a good approach, though. had just had three boards. I mean, so many surfers just own too many boards and make it too complicated. Tiffany Joh Yeah, and I think even with the board, I'm sure if you're really, really good, you can kind of sense all the intricacies when you go surf. But for me, I need like a board when it's really small, like a board when it's like super fun. And then, you know, a board where I'm like, all right, if I'm going to have to, you know, get out there and I need to get out test the light water, like this is going to help me without getting things washed up. Like that's the only way I make my choice. Michael Frampton How many sets of clubs do you have? Tiffany Joh And so... Well, I probably have, I mean, I've given away a ton of them because I'm not, I'm not a hoarder or anything, but I think I've probably had maybe 30 sets of clubs in my lifetime. I've probably given away like 15 to 20 of them. But I think for me, it's not like, I don't get, I don't replace full sets. I'll have like, like 15 putters and then like, you know, 30 drivers. Like, I'm kind of replacing them one by one in the bag, depending on, um, sometimes it's, I would keep, you know, you're only allowed to use 14 clubs during a tournament, but I would keep 16 and based on what kind of golf course we're playing, I would kind of switch out clubs. But, so I end up having like 100 wedges because, you know, a lot of that is very turf dependent. Michael Frampton Okay. Do, is that common? Do some people go overboard with, with clubs that have like, multiple different sets for different courses and and this commitment at disadvantage? Tiffany Joh I think most people keep the iron pretty much the same. But yeah, with wedges, especially on the professional level, people are switching those out a lot. Also with wedges because it's so skin dependent, you always want fresh grooves. wedges I was actually probably replacing at least once a month. Then the driver pretty much any time a company came out with a new model I was asking for to try one, because driver technology is changing so quickly that it actually does make a difference if you have the latest and greatest model in your bag. But then cutting is so intuitive and field-based. You can put with the same putter your entire life. So I think I've only put with maybe three or four different putters in my career in competition. So wedges I probably have. I mean, we use them as like door stops and like we use them to like... You know, what changed the bets on the air conditioner and stuff. Michael Frampton Funny. Have you ever been to a wave pool yet? Tiffany Joh I haven't. I'm not sure I would like it. I think I would feel a lot of pressure. Michael Frampton You'd be used to the pressure though. Tiffany Joh Maybe. But I would just, I think I have a feeling that I did have a friend actually who used to work first or simply and, you know, they did a wave pool kit that she was saying. She played volleyball at the college club. So she was used to like pressure and competition and she said that hours leading up to like going to the wave pool, she was, she felt like she was out of meat. Michael Frampton She was like, it was just the tension was just. Yeah. suppose everyone's watching and it's your turn. Yeah. But pressure makes diamonds, they say. Tiffany Joh And I do kind of like the idea that if you miss it, there's someone that can pick it up. Like it never goes wasted. Right. There's always like a second or whatever. person who could like pick up whatever you missed. that makes me feel a little bit better. Michael Frampton Yeah, it's kind of like the driving range for surfers. Yeah. Yeah, and they're popping up everywhere. So yeah, I think it's going to change surfing for the, well, maybe for the bed and we'll see. All right, well, Tif, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. It's awesome. Um, if there was one, if there was one piece of surfing advice, you could leave listeners with what would there be? Tiffany Joh Um, I think just going back to consistency over intensity. Um, I wish I could say, I know everyone says like the best or from the water is having the most fun, but the person having the most fun is like probably the person who's getting better and seeing improvement and being encouraged. um, I'm going to go with consistency over intensity, like put it in 20, 30 minutes consistently, rather. then, you know, five hours every other time. Michael Frampton Yeah, no, I liked it. I think there's a lot of truth to that saying, you know, the best surface having the most fun. Obviously, you know, outside of competition surfing, because that's different. I don't think surfing is even a sport. Tiffany Joh Sometimes I don't think so either. Yeah, more of a sport than golf, though. Michael Frampton Well, yeah. Yeah, if you can, if you get a sport, you can do in your pajamas with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth. Tiffany Joh Maybe it's not a sport and a beer in one hand. Michael Frampton Yeah. Exactly. I will tip. Tiffany Joh What's your Instagram? So people can follow along. So my Instagram is tip Joe T I F F J O H. It's like 90% tacos, but during that, that would be interesting to follow. Michael Frampton All right. Cool. I will have links to that in the show notes. Tiffany Joh Again, thank you so much for taking the time. Awesome. Michael Frampton Thank you.…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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106 Surf Everyday Until Sponsored - Silas’s Bold Mission

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Follow Silas on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/surfendipitous What does it take to master surfing when you start late, face fear, and dive into the complexities of surf culture? In this episode, Silas shares his inspiring story of committing to surfing at 19 and navigating the highs and lows of his journey. From mastering line-up politics to dealing with fear and embracing dry-land training, Silas offers a refreshing perspective on what it means to pursue passion while staying grounded in the realities of surf culture. If you’re looking to improve your skills or gain insight into the unwritten rules of the surf world, this episode is packed with practical tools and honest wisdom. Learn how to approach line-up politics and navigate the culture shock of the surf world with respect and confidence. Discover the benefits of dry-land training, video analysis, and unconventional balance exercises to improve your surfing skills. Get actionable tips on conquering fear, entering a flow state, and even surfing through chandelier barrels with your eyes closed. Take your surfing skills and understanding of the surf culture to the next level—listen now! In this episode: How negotiate line-up politics How to deal with the surfing culture shock and How to surf with your eyes closed - make a chandelier barrel section. How and why to improve your balance and vision. Tips for dry-land training Practical tools to improve surfing skills, from dry-land training to video analysis. Techniques for managing fear and entering a flow state. The importance of respect and connection in surf culture. How to set goals and define success on your own terms. This episode provides actionable advice, personal inspiration, and insights into building a fulfilling surfing journey. Key Takeaways from This Episode Rediscovering Passion Silas shares how reconnecting with surfing reignited his sense of purpose and transformed his life. Overcoming Adversity His journey from a challenging childhood to a dedicated surfer illustrates resilience and determination. Commitment to Improvement Learn how coaching, video analysis, and consistent practice can accelerate skill development. Facing Fear and Embracing Flow Silas offers strategies for confronting fear in the water and achieving the elusive "flow state." Purposeful Social Media Use Gain insights into leveraging social media to document progress, create opportunities, and inspire others. Respecting Surf Culture Tips on navigating local surf dynamics, building community respect, and thriving in new environments. Defining Success Your Way Silas emphasizes growth, passion, and creating opportunities over conventional measures like sponsorships. Outline Early Surfing Experience - Silas first tried surfing at age 4 with their mother, but had a negative experience due to salt water and tumbling waves, leading to a memorable fight with their mother. - At age 12, Silas rediscovered surfing during a family vacation to Hawaii, falling in love with it again and deciding their dream was to become a professional surfer and marry a Hawaiian. Challenges During Adolescence - Between ages 12 and 19, Silas experienced difficult times at home, including issues with their mentally ill stepfather, which stunted their ability to pursue surfing. Reigniting Passion for Surfing - At age 19, Silas's cooking school instructor suggested they move to Tofino to surf, reigniting their passion. - In Tofino, Silas got a job at a beach resort and began surfing intensively, teaching themselves initially before getting a surfing coach to improve further. Social Media Challenge - Silas started a social media challenge 73 days prior to the interview, posting a surfing video every day until they get sponsored, aiming to dedicate themselves more to surfing and improve their skills. - Silas views social media as a tool for progress rather than having specific sponsorship expectations, seeing any opportunities arising from it as worthwhile. Philosophy on Surfing Enjoyment - Silas believes in the logarithmic nature of surfing enjoyment; the better one gets, the more fun it becomes exponentially. - Silas aims to be around people who share their passion for surfing and making surf films, having recently lived a 'bum surfing lifestyle' to focus on the sport. Inspiration and Goals - Silas acknowledges starting surfing later than many but does not see it as a reason not to try, finding inspiration in surfers like Kelly Slater who continue to compete at an older age. - Silas is open to various paths in surfing, not necessarily aiming for traditional pro surfing sponsorship but exploring different opportunities in the surfing world. Training and Improvement Techniques - Silas has found working with a coach and analyzing video footage to be the most helpful in improving their surfing. - They practice pop-ups on dry land and have considered trying to surf goofy-footed based on viewer comments on their videos. - Silas struggles with compression and getting low while surfing, recognizing it as an area for improvement. - The interview discusses various training techniques, including practicing in front of mirrors, skateboarding with surfing techniques, and using slacklines for balance. - Emphasis is placed on the importance of body awareness, balance, and vision training for surfing improvement. Interacting with Other Surfers - Silas finds interacting with other surfers in the lineup challenging, preferring to focus on surfing rather than socializing extensively. - The transition from surfing beach breaks in Tofino to crowded point breaks in New Zealand was initially discouraging for Silas. - The importance of being respectful in the lineup while still asserting oneself is discussed, along with the potential for relationships to develop over time with other surfers. Surfing Philosophy and Overcoming Fear - Silas emphasizes the value of surfing in all conditions, even when forecasts are poor, to maximize time in the water and improve skills. - Silas identifies fear as a significant challenge in surfing, particularly in committing to waves in critical moments. - They draw parallels between overcoming fear in surfing and staying present in the moment, similar to appreciating current progress rather than fixating on future goals. Flow State and Future Plans - The concept of flow state is discussed, with Silas relating it to experiences in both surfing and their work as a chef. - The interview touches on the science of flow states and their relevance to surfing and other sports. - Silas is planning to move to the South Island of New Zealand, particularly Dunedin and the Catlins, without a specific job lined up. - They express a philosophy of making decisions and observing how their environment responds, following opportunities that seem to 'click into place'. - Silas maintains an open mindset about their future, willing to embrace both positive and negative outcomes of their choices. Transcript Michael | 00:00 When did you start Surfing? Silas | 00:02 Not until about two and a half years ago. Okay. Yeah. So One of my earliest memories with my mom is a fight we had because she took me Surfing and I got up on a wave and she saw how lit up I was and how much I had just like, and maybe she hadn't seen that with other things because I was doing sports my whole life, all sorts of different sports. Michael | 00:07 Where were you and why surfing? Silas | 00:34 And when I fell and I got the salt water in my mouth and the tumbling of the wave, I did not want to do it anymore. I was out. I was like, no, get me out of here. And she wanted to make me keep doing it because she saw how much I enjoyed it. And I was like, no. And it was this like huge fight that I'll probably remember for the rest of my life. And then I didn't touch it again until I was 12. We went on a family vacation to Hawaii. So And then, yeah, when I was 12, we went on a family vacation to Hawaii and I did a lesson there and like really chill waves. Michael | 01:01 How old were you when the first thing happened? Four. Four, okay, wow. Yeah. Silas | 01:16 And I like fell in love with it all over again. Like it was like, I completely forgotten that was, you know. And so I decided at the age of 12 that my dream was to become a professional Surfing and marry a Hawaiian. And so, yeah, that's loosely what we're going for in some sense, you know. Michael | 01:44 Well, you made that decision when you were 12. Yeah. But you're not 14 now. So what happened between 12 and? A. Silas | 01:51 Lot, a lot of stuff happened, yeah. I went through some not so great things in like my home growing up and I had a lot of responsibility from a very early age. And I think when really bad things happen, it really stunts your ability and in most aspects of your life, you know, you kind of forget, get lost in the hurt and forget about the things that you love that, yeah. Especially at an early age, I think it's kind of hard to navigate your way through that without much experience, you know. So yeah, I guess I just kind of got caught up in what was going on. And I was busy kind of providing opposed to just doing what I wanted to do and sticking true to that. And then when I was 14, I served again in Hawaii and that kind of, again, almost got there, but not really. And then when I was finishing my cooking school to become a chef, my instructor was like, why don't you go move to Tofino and go Surfing? And he didn't know that I had surfed or, you know, anything. He just said it and this like lights was like switched on in my head. And I was like my God, like I have to do this. Michael | 03:23 So how old were you when this happened? 19. Yeah, okay. Silas | 03:29 Yeah, like 18, 19. And so as soon as I was done my course, part of the requirements for the course is to work, I don't know, I think it's like 600 hours in the industry. So I went and got a job in Tofino, which is the Surfing town. And at this five -star resort that was like right on the beach, they had staff accommodations. So like two minute walk to the beach. And yeah, I just got after it. Like I started charging, I bought like a nine foot soft top and like a shitty wetsuit. And I just started going out like past the break. Like I had no experience really besides the one or two times I'd done it when I was younger. And I just started figuring it out. Like I didn't really like, you know, have somebody like showing me the ropes. It was like, I was so eager and so keen and it was so outside of my comfort zone and I didn't care. Like, and it's like a passion that I have that I don't have with anything else. Like there's no other thing in my life that drives me in that way, you know, that I've had this like such an intention for, feels like, you know. And from there, yeah, I just got better and better because I was going like every day. And then it got to the point where I'd gotten a hard top. I think it was like a seven two and I see people doing turns and stuff. And I like, I know I want to get there, but I have no idea. And that was when I got a Surfing coach because I was like, I could consistently catch green waves and trim them nicely and ride them. And yeah. Michael | 05:08 Okay, so you're 19 when you rediscovered Surfing and committed to it. Yeah. And so you're 21 now? 22. 22 now, okay. So I'd be remissed if we skipped past that sore point we touched on. Did you lose a parent or something at 12 or? No. Silas | 05:31 So my stepdad, he was quite a mentally ill person. I don't hold any like anger, hate towards him because he genuinely is like, he's in his own world. You know, he's not capable of, but he was my dad growing up. Like he met my mom when I was two and he raised me like he was my dad. Yeah. And they were married for 10 years. They had three kids together and all three of my siblings sort of have some sort of disability. And I didn't necessarily. And I received a lot of like hate from him without knowing why, you know? Like it was like, because most of the time he was like the supportive, loving father. And then other times he would be like, I felt excluded all the time because like I wasn't his kid or whatever, but they didn't even tell me until I was 12. So up until that point, I had thought that he was my real dad. And then they kind of broke it to me because you know, I'm a little bit darker than my siblings. You know, I look different. And he would like Dall-E the N word when I was like growing up to like try and like make me feel bad about being different. And like, I don't even know why I'm different, you know? So it was like always this, yeah, really not a nice game to play really. And, but they ended up splitting up and my younger brother, I have five siblings now. The one after me, he kind of got caught in the middle of it because it is actually his dad. And my stepdad kind of like twisted him up and like really messed his head up and just kind of like alienated him. And yeah, so, and yeah, my brother went to rehab like the week that I left for New Zealand. So yeah, and it's been a struggle. And yeah, like that's my baby brother, you know, I had to watch him go through that. And I'd say that was probably the hardest thing about all of it was that there was nothing I could do. Like I just had, I was helpless. I just had to watch it happen and there was nothing I could do. It was just the way it was. And it was really hard to come to terms with that and work through that mentally. And, you know, of course there's lots of, I could go on and on about the crazy shit that happened, but that's kind of the gist. And yeah, but like I know my birth dad now. I met him after. And yeah, we're really good friends and we've supported each other a lot since we've met and like made each other better. You know, we were both very blunt people. And like, even though he didn't raise me, like we're like the same person. And it's so crazy to see like genetically because we're so similar. And I never knew him my whole life, but like when I met him, I was like, there is like somebody else that's like pretty similar to me out there. Cause like I don't experience it a lot. It's yeah, like a genuine good connection that I find quite rarely. Yeah. So to find that with my dad through like, but like in like a more of like a mutual kind of way opposed to like, he's my dad and I'm his son kind of thing, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Michael | 09:12 Well, thanks for sharing that. Yeah. It's not always easy. Yeah. Like a little bit of experience. And my boys, their mother was quite mentally ill before she passed away. So I had to deal with her and that sort of thing. My kids sort of went through, sounds like something a little bit similar to you, but different, but yeah, it's not easy, but it does. Silas | 09:34 I'm so happy. Like I wouldn't trade my life or my experiences for anything. Cause like I'll never ever be in as bad of a place as I was, you know? And I experienced that at an early age and that's like done. It's like only forward, you know, kind of feels like because yeah, it can't get much worse than that. Michael | 10:00 I think it's a common thread between amongst a lot of great people is they have a traumatic childhood often. And it can go either way where you end up under a bridge with a needle in your arm or you can become one of the best in the world at something. Yeah. And it looks like you've chosen the right path and hopefully your brother sticks with rehab and finds his way as well. Yeah. Silas | 10:24 And I've offered him that arm as well. Like when you're serious and you wanna come over here wherever I am and work, put your head down, like partying and like being a hooligan. I want that for you and I'm here for that. But until you're willing to take that seriously, I can't have you coming over here and like messing up what I have going for myself, you know? And it's really hard to create that boundary as well. Michael | 10:50 Well, it's like those experiences can light fires and people and obviously it's lit a Surfing fire in. Silas | 10:57 You. And he sees it too. And he's like, you know, he's, yeah, he sees it. And I think it kind of inspires him a little bit, you know? He's like, he's always like man, I wanna be out there, you know? Like, yeah, so, yeah. Michael | 11:11 Cool. And okay, so that, and then you rediscover Surfing at 19. You've stuck with it since. And then I came across you through via Instagram. And it was, correct me if I'm wrong, but posting a surfing video every day until I'm sponsored. And that started about 70 days ago, was it? Silas | 11:34 73 days ago. Michael | 11:35 73 days ago. Okay. And we're two days before Christmas in December, 2024. And so what happened 73 -ish days ago? Like what, why? Silas | 11:50 Yeah, I've struggled on and off with social media. I see it as like a negative thing and I don't see it as something that's super beneficial and I've wasted a lot of time on it. And I kind of had a moment where I like redownloaded it and was like, you know, kind of like getting into posting stuff again. And I was like, you know, like, what am I doing? You know, like, what's the goal here? Cause I'm not, I hate wasting my time. I really do. Not that I can't relax and enjoy doing nothing, but I don't like spending my time on things I don't think are gonna like, yeah. Benefit me. So I just, I wanted to start posting content, but I didn't know what, but I'm Surfing every day and I've got this mouth mount for my GoPro. And I know that I want to go in the direction of dedicating myself more and more to Surfing and getting better. And I just kind of said, fuck it. I was like, yeah, I'm like, let's do it. Let's see what happens. Like, you know, like I'm just gonna keep going. I don't care if I get to day 1 ,137, I'll do it. Like, yeah. Okay. Michael | 13:14 So, but what about the Surfing side of it? Like, and like, this is such a specific, like until I'm sponsored. Silas | 13:24 Yeah. Well, I kind of like that it just says that because people automatically assume that I want to be like sponsored by a big company and like in that top tier of Surfing, I don't necessarily like need that or want that. That's not like the goal for me, but to get sponsored is very broad, you know? And I think it leaves opportunity for a lot of different things, opposed to being like, I just want one thing because I don't even know what that would be at the moment, you know? So I think it's kind of nice to just leave it open -ended and like having people like you, like reach out and be like, you want to go on a podcast? That's not getting sponsored, but that's an opportunity and that's super cool, you know? And I think really anything that I get out of it is, yeah, totally worth it. Yeah. Michael | 14:20 Yeah. I mean, obviously you want to get better at Surfing. Silas | 14:23 Yeah. Michael | 14:24 Yeah. And you know, the better you get, the more fun it is. Yeah. It's like a logarithmic thing, you know? The better you get, the more fun it is times 10 and that just keeps going. Silas | 14:33 And going. Yeah, I make Surfing films and like that trip to Tahiti, there was just 10 of us and we were all surfers and videographers, you know? Like I want that. I want to be around people who have that passion for Surfing as well as me. And I know that that's like the happiest I could be, you know, living that life. And I've been working part -time the last probably six months and just Surfing a lot. And it's been really good, but now I'm super broke and I'm like living in my van and I'm kind of living this like bum Surfing lifestyle. And it's what I wanted for my whole time in New Zealand, but I've only gotten a slice of it, but it's been pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty stoked about it. Yeah. Michael | 15:24 It sounds like things are falling into place. Yeah. I think that's what's good about social media is it can be very inspirational. Yeah. Like it does make me, do you follow Gravey at all? No. No? No. Do you know who he is? No. No? Okay, so gosh, I don't know his exact story, but I know that he's huge now. Like he's probably one of the most popular Surfing. Silas | 15:50 Okay. Michael | 15:51 Yeah. He's a real stop. He's probably one of the most well -paid surfers. Yeah. And he's a very average surfer. Well, he's a good Surfing, but compared to a pro shortboarder, he doesn't come close. And he's made a following and a living out of sharing his journey. I think sobriety is how he sort of replaced drinking with Surfing basically. I may be misspeaking, so I don't know his exact story. And he surfs novelty waves. One of his goals was to surf every state in America. So he's Surfing lakes and surfing rivers and chasing fairies on jet skis to surf the wakes off these big boats. And then he hooking up with Jamie O 'Brien, who's another sort of ex -pro who's gone massive with social media and that they're Surfing big waves and stuff. So those guys who don't take the pro Surfing sponsored route, but end up being essentially sponsored surfers, they actually earn way more money. Yeah. And they don't have to be away from their family all the time, traveling on someone else's pro tennis tour schedule. Whilst it may be unrealistic when people first hear, I wanna become a sponsored Surfing, but I've only really started when I was 19. Because you're competing against rich kids that started when they were five. There's so many different ways to look at it. Silas | 17:20 Yeah. I think because I started late, it's like, I understand the situation. I get it, but I don't think that means that I just shouldn't try. And I think Kelly Slater is super inspirational for me because he's still doing that at 50. And I figured, even if it takes me 10, 15 years, I'm here for it. And to be able to share that and be able to look back through all the progress is gonna be phenomenal. Michael | 18:01 Yeah. I don't regret. You don't regret a Surfing. No. Even if it was a bad surf and something, you'd never regret going Surfing. And I think it's a worthy pursuit and it's something that even Kelly Slater himself still wants to get better. And there's people like Skip Fry who are in their 80s who still go Surfing every day. If you keep doing it, you can still... It's a lifelong pursuit basically. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you sharing it on social media, it's inspirational. It's gonna be interesting to follow your journey. You've only just started. You get to that point where you've got a certain level of follows and it will sort of Yeah. It will take on a new form, I'm sure. And. Silas | 18:50 Even if it doesn't, that's okay. You know, like I don't really have any, I don't know, like expectations or like dead set intentions. I'm just like putting it out there, you know? And seeing what happens. Yeah. Kind of letting it just, instead of trying to like force it in one direction, you know, just like see where it takes me. Yeah. Yeah. Just. Michael | 19:18 Get better at Surfing. Yeah. Keep it simple. I like that. Yeah. What's been, what's in the last, since you rediscovered surfing at 19, the last three years, what's been the thing that's helped you the most with Surfing? A coach. Silas | 19:35 For sure. Yeah. Definitely a coach. And even just like video footage. I think those two things are very helpful. But it is interesting starting out because, you know, I feel like I've got to pick apart from what I'm learning, what I want to keep, what style, what's not, you know, and trying to like put all these things together is yeah, very difficult. Yeah. Michael | 20:05 Yeah. Yeah. And what else have you done? Do you do any, do you skateboard? Do you do anything else? No. Silas | 20:12 I've Surfing skated a little bit. But I think it would be debatable on whether or not that's helpful. I'm practicing pop -up on dry land. That's really nice because it can always get better. And that video that got a lot of views, a lot of people thought I was switching, I was Surfing switch. Yeah. So they're like, he's just like messing around and like serving switch. And I was like, no. And they're like, maybe you're a goofy footer. So I haven't tried Surfing goofy ever, but I think I might give it a go just because enough people were like, kind of like, yeah, said that about that video. So maybe I'll give it a go because I can't even say that I'm not goofy because I haven't tried it, you know, I just naturally was regular. And I never even thought to like give goofy a chance, you know, yeah. Michael | 21:11 It certainly wouldn't do any harm learning how to do it. No. Which way do you skate? Silas | 21:18 I skate Mongo. Michael | 21:21 No, but which foot forward? Silas | 21:23 Left. Michael | 21:23 Foot. Left foot forward, okay. And if you were to kick a football or soccer ball, which foot would you use? Right foot. You're probably a natural footer then. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I think when people first start Surfing, you have a, people sometimes it's called the poo stance. And it's a more sort of, it's a more balanced, safe feeling position. Yeah. And then once your balance and your comfort levels improve in the water, you sort of more, you gradually, your body relaxes and things sort of fall into place and you'd sort of develop your own style. There's a lot of reasons why that happens. Silas | 22:06 I find that that's actually one of the things I've struggled with the most is my compression and getting down low. And I understand that's a problem that I have and I need to work on, but I still struggle like every time I get in the water to compress properly. Because I feel like I'm like all the way down, like super compressed. And then I see video footage and I'm like, my knees are like a little bit bent. Like it's super difficult for some reason. And maybe it is like a safety thing or I don't know, but it's been hard for me to like, kind of like condition myself to compress. Michael | 22:54 Yeah, what, I mean, from a technical coach's perspective, yeah, you're very, you don't bend at the hips, you bend at the knees a lot. So there's definitely some work to be done in that regards. I mean, gosh, I mean, send an email to someone like Brad Gerlach. He does a program called Wave Key, which is all about refining your body position and technique on dry land. And ideally it's done in front of a mirror so that you're quite, how does my body feel? What does it look like? Those two things, as you know, when you watch yourself Surfing, they're so far apart. I thought I was doing this, but it looks like this and it's heartbreaking. Yeah, It will be for a long time. Silas | 23:33 Yeah, it is. Michael | 23:36 Yeah. But if you start training in front of a mirror, then the way your body feels and the way it looks, those two things start to line, they start to line up more. Yeah, that's interesting. And it increases your body awareness. It works on very ancient neurological things. Like when we learn to walk, we actually learn by watching other people walk. It's called mirror neurons. Silas | 24:01 Okay, yeah. Michael | 24:01 So dry land training does work. Yeah, okay. Things like practicing skateboarding, using Surfing techniques whilst, it gets made fun of a lot and can look a little ridiculous. It does work. Do you know what I mean? Because not only are you working on those positions in front of a mirror, but then you're moving around on an uneven surface like a skateboard. Obviously it's not the same as Surfing, but you can kind of mimic surfing style on a skateboard. A lot of coaches swear by it and that's all they use. So that's part of the reason why watching footage and training in front of the mirror helps a lot, because it just increases your body awareness so that you know, like if you were eyeing a barrel and you know it's X amount of size, then you know your body has to compress down and become that size in order to get into it. But if there's a mismatch and you're standing taller than you think you are to fit in the barrel, then the lips is gonna hit you in the head and you might not click as to why that happened. Little things like that can make a massive difference. I mean, if I had my time all over again to sort of really attack Surfing, I would have spent more time just working on dry land stuff like body awareness, balance, vision. Silas | 25:21 Slack line, Slack line's good. I like slack line. Slack line? Yeah, slack line's nice. I thought because I could ride a surfboard that slack line should be no problem, you know? Because it seems like maybe simpler balancing on a Slack line because it's just there and you just walk on it. And I got on there and I was so frustrated that I couldn't do it. And it took me like a good like two or three weeks of, you know, just every time I walked past it, giving it a go. And the first time that I ever walked, like finished the Slack line was the day I got back from Tahiti. I had Surfing Taupo and I was like, looking at the Slack line, I was like, I can fucking do that shit. And I got on there and I smashed it. It felt pretty good. Yeah, that's a good one for balance, I think. Yeah. Michael | 26:11 Yeah, even just simple things like standing on one foot with your eyes closed. Something that sounds easy. Silas | 26:18 I heard you can't do it. Michael | 26:21 You might not be able to, but I mean, if Kelly Slater was here and he'd never done that, and he asked him to do it, he'd probably just do it without even, because he's so gifted with his neurological system. It's nothing. You have a vestibular system, which is kind of like a gyroscope in your inner ear. And that tells your brain, am I, is my head level, essentially. It senses movement. You know, am I moving through space while it's happening? But your brain looks at your vision. Where's the horizon? What am I looking at? Am I moving to help decide whether you're balanced? And all the information coming from your body, your feet, your entire body awareness, that all of those inputs into the brain, am I balanced? It tells your body, are you balanced? The better each one of those things are, the better the combination of signals as well. You see surfers that surf through barrels like chandeliers, they can't see, but they still come out. So all of a sudden their vision's gone, but they're still balanced because the body is so good with the other sensory inputs. So in training, we can isolate those. For example, standing on one foot with your eyes closed, sort of makes you, forces your brain to go, to only use your vestibular system and your body awareness to, am I balanced? And because we rely on vision so much, most people can't even do that. Silas | 27:50 Yeah, like when, as soon as the water is in your eyes and you can't see, you just give up almost. It's like, that's it, game over. Yeah, it's powering through, yeah. Michael | 28:01 But there's so many things like that if you take a top athlete and get them to do it, they'll just laugh at you. I'm like, this is easy, give me something challenging. But most other people just can't do it. So there's a big gap between elite athletes and average athletes. And I think, but the thing is, you can isolate those things and train them now. We know so much about the nervous system and athletic development now. And whilst it's dead lifting or doing Olympic lifting is, so, well, it looks so good on social media, right? Do you know what I mean? It's so, I wanna be big and strong and lift weights like that or whatever. But in reality, the pro athletes, they aren't doing much of that. They're actually doing a lot of other stuff and they're naturally gifted in other ways. So you're actually better off, if you're really serious about becoming a better athlete, you're better off on working things like, on things like balance and body awareness, even the speed at which your eyes move from there to there, for example. Like if I'm looking down, I look what's in front of me, what's happening down there. If your eyes can literally move from looking down the line, see what that wave's doing to right in front of you, twice as fast and then back and then over there than anyone else, you're taking in more information than other Surfing. You're reading the wave on a more detailed level simply because your vision's better. And you make better decisions, time slows down, your body relaxes because you understand your environment more. I mean, it's things like, even average surfers are doing a lot of big wave breath holding training. Even if they don't have the intention of Surfing big waves, the fact that the brain knows that you're comfortable with being underwater for a certain amount of time, every time you go Surfing from then on, from that training, you're just so much calmer, you're more relaxed because you're not subconsciously scared of drowning as much. Yeah. Little things like that. So this, anyway, I could go on and on. It's like. Silas | 29:55 I've heard it before, like stacking the confidence, you know, like proving to yourself what you can do that's gonna help you out there. Yeah. And just collecting them as many as you can, yeah. Yeah. Michael | 30:09 Point is there's so much you can do because obviously with Surfing, you're limited to there being good waves and sunlight and time off work to go Surfing. Yeah. But there's so many other things you can do to get better at surfing, not necessarily directly from a skill perspective, but in terms of increasing the way your body works, your body awareness, your strength. And all those And just getting better at other sports. Silas | 30:31 Things aren't limited to Surfing either. Exactly. So it's win? Yes. Yeah. Michael | 30:39 You find a lot of athletes, they do a lot of other sports as well. And they're always busy, you know, pro Surfing, and they're at the golf course or they're playing table tennis or they're doing something else. No. Silas | 30:52 I played a lot of sports. I did ice hockey for like eight years, did soccer, baseball, American football. Yeah. Yeah. I was always playing sports. That was something I was super lucky to have growing up because I just naturally was fit growing up. You know, it was never an issue. Michael | 31:17 Do you still play any? Silas | 31:19 No. Just Surfing? Just surfing. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, it takes the cake for sure. Michael | 31:25 Yeah. Once you've got the bug. Silas | 31:28 It's over. Yeah. I find one of the hardest things with Surfing for me is the people. I just like, I wanna go out there and I don't wanna interact, but I want to be interactive enough to be respectful. And like, you know, like I'm not out there to just like be the silent asshole who's like, you know, like lurking around. I just, I don't, I'm not there for that, you know? And it happens naturally. And when it does, it's great. But most of the time I'm not like going out with the intention of chit -chatting with somebody for 15 minutes while a bunch of waves go by, you know? I'm like, go. And I'm trying to paddle. And especially at a place like Manu where it's just so busy and there's so many people, you gotta be on, you gotta just go for everything and pick your moments and yeah. Michael | 32:23 Yeah, that's, I think a lot of newbies to Surfing find that culture shock quite strange. Yeah. But it makes sense. Like, because as a Surfing coach, coaching new beginners, it's one thing you have to deal with a lot because they just sort of, especially if you want to go out and Surfing a crowded lineup and get waves and not be ostracized for it or My advice is always be friendly to everyone, but don't expect them to be friendly back. Silas | 32:48 Whatever. Yeah, that's a good way to go about it. Michael | 33:00 So acknowledge people. You might just give them a nod and they might not even look at you. You can't judge that person on that because they might have been Surfing for 20 years every day and that's their one hour a day where they don't want to talk to anyone. They just want to focus on Surfing. That's their life, that's their art form. And then when you meet them in the car park, they're the nicest guy ever. But they might, as soon as they put a wetsuit on, so there can be exaggerated mismatches like that in. Silas | 33:29 Surfing. And I think I've definitely, I don't know. I noticed it in my life as well. There's just some times where I draw negative attention from somebody and it's never out of a place where I intend to do so. It's always kind of like a, just like a weird, like one -off kind of thing. But I've, yeah, I've definitely pissed some people off in the lineup for sure. I had a dude in Kuatunu, he tried to like punch me in the water. And I've never experienced anything like that before. And Tofino, it's mostly beach break, so it's pretty spread out. And there's only a handful of like, you know, good Surfing. So coming to New Zealand and Surfing my first point break with, you know, 40 people and, you know, at least half of them are really good or like, you know, pretty decent. It was, yeah, super challenging, like facing the fear of Surfing over shallow, you know, rocks and dodging 40 people is a very huge leap from the comfort of the beach break where I come from, because there I knew the beach so good and I'd Surfing it so many times. I could go out and like, you know, like a 12 to 14 foot storm swell by myself and I know I'm gonna be okay. But here it's just like it's a whole different ball game and I kind of did get shocked by it quite a bit. It was almost discouraging, almost. Yeah. Michael | 35:09 That's almost, Surfing don't want you to be there because waves are a limited resource. However, having said that, if you prove to them that you can be respectful and that you are in it for the right reasons and that you can share waves, that person who was an absolute twat the first few times saw you, it might take a year, literally, of you Surfing with them every day, they're not even looking at you. And then one day, they'll just, they'll acknowledge you one day and then you might end up being best friends. But it's sort of like, especially the older surfers, because Surfing used to be, gosh, even 10 years ago, the wetsuits weren't even that great. 15 years ago, the wetsuits weren't that great. And there was no forecasting. Do you know what I mean? I don't. Silas | 36:03 Like forecasting. I don't like forecasting at all. I don't like the cams. I don't like the forecast. Because it's like, if you don't have cams and you don't look at the forecast and you just go look for yourself, even if it's shitty, probably gonna get in the water, opposed to looking on your camera on your phone and being like, it doesn't look perfect. I'm not gonna go. If. Michael | 36:26 You're seriously about getting better, you'd Surfing every day at all conditions. And some of the best Surfing come from parts of the world where the waves are terrible. Kelly Slater comes from Florida. Silas | 36:36 There's a kid that I Surfing with in rags. His name's DeMellon. That's his nickname. And we're usually the only two people out when there's a shitty wind swell and nobody else is in the water. And I'll be out by myself and then he'll paddle out or vice versa. And it's funny, because it's usually him. Like on those shitty days when everybody's like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, it's usually me and him out there. It's pretty nice. I love Surfing shitty swell and then going into work and everybody's like, you surf? I'm like, yeah. Like how was it? I was like, it's awesome. Like what do you mean? Like, yeah. And they're like, it's supposed to be bad today. Like, yeah. Waves are waves, you know? There's work to be done there. There's improvements to be made. Yeah, always. And I understand that it all comes down to time in the water too. Yes. The more time you spend in the water, the faster you can improve. So I definitely live by that in my routine and everything, for sure. Even on just like half foot days, borrow a friend's longboard and go and skim. You know, like, yeah. I was trying to always, because. Michael | 37:59 Always. You never regret a Surfing. Yeah. No, you're right. You cannot beat time in the water just. Silas | 38:07 And I've got a lot of catching up to do too. So it's like, it really, like, I've got that fire under me and yeah. Michael | 38:14 Yeah. And even if you don't catch any waves, it's still worth it because you, pattern recognition, you're reading the ocean, you're trying to catch waves. You're, that wave did a weird thing. And then you look, it was because it was this period. And then one day when it's pumping, you might get a little wind chop on the wave and you know how to negotiate it because you've Surfing so much junky conditions and you knew that was coming because you're so familiar with the break and you've seen that wave pop up in that weird place or whatever. And so your time in the water, you cannot. Silas | 38:44 Substitute. I think that's hard as well though. Like having the money to be able to travel and to Surfing different places is obviously like kind of like the surfer's dream to just like go to different countries and surf, you know, really nice breaks. But you don't get familiar with one place, you know, like staying in a place for a long time and getting really familiar with just one break. So it's a lot of like, I feel like always kind of being sort of fluid in that sense of like, you never really know what you're getting kind of, you know, and like being in a new place at a break that you've never served with people who don't know you know. I feel like experiencing that over and over again, it's almost like the first time over and over again. Michael | 39:41 Yeah. Yeah, you gotta have a home break. Yeah. Obviously travels amazing and important. Yeah, Yeah. Silas | 39:46 Home break. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. I like that. Michael | 39:49 Even if it's a different home break every year. Yeah. Like, I mean, if I was you, I'd be emailing the Four Seasons in the Maldives saying, hey, do you need a sous chef? Silas | 40:01 Yeah, to move to French Polynesia so bad. Michael | 40:01 Yeah. I wanted. Silas | 40:06 I told the guy on my way out of the country when he stamped my passport, I was like, I need to find a wife. And he's like, you'll find one in there. And he pointed to the waiting room. I was like, all right. Didn't find a wife though. Not yet. Michael | 40:19 No. You said you wanted Hawaiian though. You gotta go. Silas | 40:23 Hawaii. I'd settle for French Polynesia. Yeah, I'd settle for French Polynesia. I think that'd be like I said, it's very loose, professional Surfing marrying a Hawaiian. It's just kind of like, yeah. Michael | 40:36 Yeah, if you want to reach high, you've got to aim high. Silas | 40:40 Yeah. Michael | 40:42 Have you been to Hawaii? Silas | 40:43 Twice, yeah. So once when I was 12 and that was when I went to Maui. Super beautiful, but pretty touristy and like American kind of modern. And then Kauai. Kauai, I really loved Kauai. It's called the Garden Island. Michael | 41:00 Yes, I've been there. Yeah, and. Silas | 41:01 It's so good. All the jungle and like the localism. And yeah, I really liked it there. It did still have that touch of, you know, tourism for sure, but I found it a lot more enjoyable. Like easier on the eyes, a little bit more friendly. Michael | 41:20 Yeah, it's a gym. Yeah. Yeah. You Surfing there? Silas | 41:24 Yeah. I did a lesson and then I actually, I did really good on my lesson. And I thought the next day I'd take my, take an eight footer instead of a nine footer. And the swell had picked up as well. And I went back to the same beach and it was like, I didn't even recognize the beach because of how different it was. It had rained. So all of the debris from the river had flowed into the water. So it changed the color of the water. And the waves were probably like four times bigger than when I was doing my lesson, you know? So they look huge and I was like, okay, here we go. You know? And I was by myself and I just kind of sent it and I could barely balance on the eight foot. And I was like, what is this? Like, it's only a foot of difference. Like how could it be that much less stable? Because on the nine foot, it's like a tank. It's like a rock. It's not going anywhere. Yeah. And then I thought eight footer, surely eight footer, no problem. And I shocked myself. I was like, whoa. Like, and I didn't catch a single wave that day because I was so uncomfortable and out of my depth, it felt like, and I tried to paddle for a wave, but I couldn't commit to it, you know? I was too scared. And that was at 14. And I think that's probably the hardest thing about Surfing is shutting the fear off. Hey, like you really have to like swallow it in that split moment, you know, when you go to catch a wave and you're looking down the line and then you see it, it's like that make or break moment. Like you either gotta like take a breath and fucking go for it, or you just gotta, you know, pull out or eat shit or whatever it is. But it's so intense, that moment of just like letting it go and just going for it. It's unreal. And I'm familiar with the sensation from other aspects of my life, but not on that level of intensity. It's such a, yeah. Michael | 43:27 Yeah, that's a big roadblock to people's development in Surfing is fear, whether they realize it or not. Yeah. Yeah. It's good awareness though. Yeah. You would have noticed it on steroids in Tahiti with the clear water and the shallow reef. Silas | 43:44 Unbelievable to any, because I've only Surfing in like Canada, the water's not super clear. It's like dark blue, you know? And same with here in New Zealand, like you do get some clear days, especially on the East coast, but like on the West coast, usually it's pretty murky. Yeah. And Tahiti, but Tahiti is like another level. Like you're on the wave and you can't tell the middle of the wave from the bottom of the wave because it's so glassy see -through. And it's just like, yeah. Insane. And I think that trip was very substantial for me. It was very like a pivotal point for me because it was like, I can go and I can Surfing a wave like that. And I really did a lot better than I thought I would. You know, like I took myself by surprise and I was just like, I just couldn't even believe it. It was like, yeah. Yeah. Michael | 44:45 So how did you overcome? How do you deal with fear? Silas | 44:55 I think it's kind of similar to like instead of feeling like you're not where you're supposed to be or like you want to be somewhere, but you're not there yet. And instead of appreciating how far you've come to get where you are now, you're worried about the next thing. I kind of feel like it's similar to that. Like every wave that I ever didn't take because I was scared, I regretted it. And it's like, it's such an in the moment thing, but to like be present enough to remind yourself that you can't listen to the fear is, I'd say is yeah, as difficult as staying in the present and not appreciating what you have and where you've come from opposed to where you want to be. Michael | 45:51 Yeah. Yeah. It's essentially what it is being in the present moment. Yeah. Because even if you were thinking half a second into the future while you're paddling into a wave, yeah, it's taking you away from. Silas | 46:04 Every time like I go to do my pop -up and I'm already thinking about, you know, my first maneuver, I just lose it. It's, you gotta be just like, yeah, you've really gotta. And I think I've experienced moments in the kitchen where I'm on, like I'm in the zone, I'm in my flow state. It's happened like twice, you know, like it's, and I always try and like in those kinds of moments, like what was different? What did I have for breakfast that day? You know, like what led to that? And it's an interesting dynamic in the kitchen as well, because you can enter the flow state as a team and not just in the kitchen, but, you know, in general. So it's, yeah, it's a very interesting thing because it's attainable and there is a way to get there, but going through the trial and error of figuring out how to like always be there is super challenging and super frustrating because you know you can do it, but a lot of the time you just can't. Like that's what it feels like to me. It's It. Michael | 47:10 Elusive. Yeah. Is. There's been some good books written on it though. Like the Rise of Superman, great book. Actually, Stephen Kotler has written a couple of books. His most recent one is called Nah Country where he teaches himself and a bunch of older people, 50 plus I think, skiers to start park skiing. Silas | 47:34 Just like normal skiers? Who's. Michael | 47:37 Never skied a park and has never slid a rail or anything. Okay. And he teaches them how to do it. Cool. He taught himself how to do it. Everyone said, no, you're too old to learn how to park ski. What are you talking about? You break a hip. And he did that and he threw just, because you enter the flow state when you're being challenged enough to not be boring, but not so much that where you're gonna hurt yourself or you fail. It's that sweet spot. I think he says it's between three and 4%. Yeah. Challenge, like it has to be a little bit harder than yesterday, but not so hard that you're just gonna fail or hurt yourself. Silas | 48:17 And I feel like Surfing is all that, you know? Yeah. For. Michael | 48:24 Sure, because even if you get the same waves every day, you can still surf deeper or you can always, yeah, it's like the wave is a Canva for whatever you wanna do on it, whether it's long board or short board or whatever. So yeah, that's a good awareness too, flow state stuff. There's plenty of reading to be done on that too. There's other things. He even started an institute, I forget what it's called, where they really studied flow states. And I think there's a list of 12 things that need to happen in order for you to increase the chances of entering flow state. Silas | 49:02 Yeah, there's actually a girl in Raglan, I can't remember her name or the name of her company, but she does that. She does like flow state training, whatever that would entail. Yeah, and immediately I just went to individualism, like she's doing one -on -ones with people. And I kind of said something that made it obvious that I'd made an assumption. And she was like no, like I do whole teams of people, like kitchens, she gave off a little list of environments that you would do that in. And it's quite interesting. Yeah. Michael | 49:44 It's really fascinating, the flow state science. Yeah, I took a deep dive years ago and I learned a lot. Yeah, I mean, that's key if you wanna... In Surfing, it usually sort of, it often just happens. Silas | 49:58 Automatically. Yeah, naturally. But I think you definitely tell when it doesn't day. That day that I was out was probably the worst Surfing that I had in a really long time. And it was super big swell, a video that blew up. It was like, I was on the inside that wave that I caught. The ones out back were like twice the size and like super heavy. And there was so many like just balls in the air. Like crazy, like good Surfing out there on their guns. I was on my little 5 '10 because my step up's out of commission. And I had like four hours sleep. I was like a little bit hungover, I think. And I just, my head was not there at all. It was a really tough day in the water for me. And then it blew up for like no reason. And I was like, why? Like why that day? You know? Yeah, it's kind of funny. Yeah, ironic a little bit. Michael | 50:58 Life is mysterious. Yeah. Especially Surfing. So how long are you in Raglan for? Silas | 51:07 I leave on the 7th of January, going down to the South Island. Yeah. I'm probably gonna spend most of my time in Dunedin and the Catlins. Michael | 51:18 Yeah. Have you got a job down there? Not. Silas | 51:20 Yet. Yeah, just winging it. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. And I don't even have like a financial cushion to wing it but I'm just gonna wing it anyways. You know, like I Yeah. Michael | 51:28 Just - You're young and single, who cares? Silas | 51:31 But not even like that. I just, opposed to like trying to force things, I really like making decisions and seeing how my environment responds to me. Because like I said, when we were calling earlier, I just feel like sometimes you feel a lot of resistance when you make a decision or like, maybe some signs that it's not a good idea. And sometimes you make a decision and everything just kind of clicks into place, almost like a domino effect, like the shuffling of the cards, you know? And yeah, I'm just kind of following that. Michael | 52:14 And - Awesome, I think you can do good, man. You can do fine. Hope so. Silas | 52:17 Yeah. But if I don't, it's okay. You know, I'm just here for it. Yeah. Good or the bad. Yeah. Michael | 52:23 Awesome. Tell us your Instagram handle. Silas | 52:27 It is surfandipitous. Michael | 52:30 Can you spell that? Silas | 52:31 S -U -R -F -E -N -D -I -P -I -T -O -U -S. Yeah. Michael | 52:40 I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Silas | 52:42 Awesome. Yeah, I like it. It's like serendipity. Yeah. It's a good thing. Surfing and surfing, I figured they go pretty good together. That's how I came up with the handle, yeah. Awesome. Michael | 52:55 I love it. And I urge everyone to give you a follow and follow your journey. And I think there's a lot of my listeners will be interested to see what's possible. And, you know, I think we'll all be able to learn something by following. Silas | 53:14 Nice. Yeah. I'm super excited. And thank you. Sweet. I appreciate. Michael | 53:18 It. Sweet. Thanks for coming by. Yeah.…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
105 Dr. Tim Brown + Taylor Knox + Michael Rintala - Surfing Longevity

11 weeks yang lalu

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Surfing longevity tips from 3 experienced legends of the surf world; https://www.rintalamovementdesigns.com/mindset-and-movement-masterclass Dr Tim Brown - WSL Medical Director and treating Doctor https://www.instagram.com/tbsportscare/ Taylor Knox - Pro Surfer https://www.instagram.com/taylor_knox/?hl=en Dr. Michael Rintala - WSL Treating Doctor, movement and rehab specialist. https://www.instagram.com/rintala_movementflow/?hl=en For more details and to book tickets: https://www.rintalamovementdesigns.com/mindset-and-movement-masterclass More surfing tips: www.surfmastery.com…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
101 Matt Grainger - Choosing Boards and Breaking Surfing Rules

27 weeks yang lalu

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In this episode, Michael Frampton catches up with renowned surfer and coach Matt Grainger to talk about the highs and lows of surfing, the challenges of big waves, and the innovations in the sport. Matt shares his experiences with heavy waves, gnarly wipeouts, and the current state of surfing on the Sydney Northern Beaches. The discussion dives into the recent swells, the changing conditions, and how they impact surfers of all levels. Matt also discusses his latest project, the "Surfer's Compass" app, a comprehensive guide for surfers to improve their techniques, mindset, and fitness. He shares the inspiration behind the app, the process of its development, and the exciting features that it will offer. Episode Highlights: Matt's Recent Surf Trip to Indonesia: Matt shares the story of his recent trip to Indonesia, where he suffered a significant head injury after a day of surfing at Macaronis. He details the moment the injury occurred, the aftermath, and the crucial steps taken to avoid infection. The Importance of Surf Safety: Despite years of experience, Matt explains how ego and overconfidence led to a dangerous situation. He emphasizes the importance of wearing a helmet in heavy conditions and the risks of surfing over shallow reefs. Injury Management and Recovery: Matt provides valuable insights into managing injuries in remote locations, including the use of bottled water, antibiotics, and proper wound care to prevent infections from coral cuts. Mobility and Strength Training for Surfers: As a coach, Matt discusses the significance of maintaining mobility and strength as surfers age. He highlights the role of a balanced training program in injury prevention and long-term surfing performance. Mindset and Longevity in Surfing: Matt touches on the importance of a positive mindset, quoting Bruce Lee on the power of words and how they influence our physical and mental well-being. He encourages surfers to stay active, eat well, and maintain a youthful outlook to continue enjoying the sport well into their later years.. Surf Culture Evolution: The changes in surfing culture, including the influx of new surfers and the impact on traditional breaks. "Surfer's Compass" App: Insight into Matt’s development of this app, aimed at improving surfing techniques, fitness, and mental strategies. For more insights and tips from Matt Grainger: Follow Matt Grainger: Instagram: mattgraingersurf . Linkedin:: Matt Grainge Follow Michael John Frampton: Instagram: @surfmastery Website: https://surfmastery.com/ . Full Show Transcript: [00:00:00] Matt Grainger: I think so. You look at all the surfers now. It's all legs. Hardly any upper body. Only back and legs. You don't want any chest, and you don't want to overload the shoulders as well in your rotator cuff. Exercises are really good. So light weights on the shoulders, nothing heavy. So you can still get that mobility in your padel. And you've got the power for your back for your paddle. So a lot of the strength training is like just Olympic rings, pull ups, maybe some skin. The cat. Um, um, dumbbell pull ups as well off the bench, all that kind of stuff. And then a lot of, a lot of, um, obviously squats with the. [00:00:40] Michael Frampton: Back to the Surf Mastery podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton, and the ethos of this show is education and inspiration for better surfing and a better surfing life. And Matt Grainger, today's guest, not only was a huge part in the inspiration for the birth of this show, but he epitomizes that ethos as well. He is in his mid 50s now, and he's still out there surfing a ton and stays fit and healthy for surfing, and also teaches others to be better surfers and better people through better surfing mindset, health and fitness, etc. Matt is just a pure inspiration in the surfing world and just an absolute frother and a rips. He rips. He's an incredible surfer and stoked to get him back on the show. And like I said, he first appeared back in episode number one. He's. This will be his fourth appearance. Uh, he also appeared in episode 30 and episode 55 as well. And, uh, without further ado, I shall fade in my conversation. My fourth conversation on this podcast with Matt Grainger from Manly Surf School. How did it happen? Was it just a freak random thing, or was it a lapse in concentration or what? [00:02:07] Matt Grainger: Yeah, it was a bit of the ego took over and ego took over. Um, we'd had. Every day was the best day ever. We had this the first swell in June. And, um, this one day just got bigger and bigger, and it had a lot of south in it. There was two swells. It was like a south swell and a bit of south west as well. So you could get a chip in, you could chip in from behind, behind the tower, and you could backdoor where you'd usually take off. So you'd get like more barrel time. And I was riding this magic six zero Psi Pro, one that I've had for about a year. Felt unreal under my feet. Been riding it for days straight. And then, um, this guy Sean came out from South Africa. He rocked up on a boat. Him and I started paddling up the reef and just trading wave after wave and making him. So just making these unbelievable tubes and no one came up there because, you know, it was pretty gnarly. So if you fell, it was like two foot deep and it was like an eight foot swell. So when Max, probably 8 to 10, you probably saw footage of Nathan Florence. I don't know if you saw some of the footage of him and he's it was like 10 to 12 foot hits that day, whereas Max doesn't get bigger, it just gets thicker. So it's probably 6 to 8 foot, but really thick, like a chokes kind of way. You get this, you can make this really nice drop and then come in with speed. [00:03:28] Matt Grainger: And just if you made it, you're fine. But if you didn't make it, that's what happened. So after five hours, I actually wasn't even tired. I was after like five hours, I was just just getting cocky and I probably should have gone in. It was more like one more, one more. And Shaun and I were trying to outdo each other, and he he actually snapped his board, his board on his last wave, and I snapped my head, but I took off, made. It made. The drop. Drop was on the foam ball. As I was pumping on the foam ball, the wave turned the corner. So kind of that south west angle of the way though, turned a massive corner. So I've just got catapulted on the foam ball and I got thrown out head first, and that's as soon as my head landed, the lip hit the back of my neck and just drove me straight into the reef, like, instantly. It was only like two foot deep. It was low tide and I just it was just like, bang. I was like, no, I got a bit on here. And then I went into worry, went into warrior mode. You know, when you when I'd said us the way, way my eyes. Okay. It's actually got a cut there as well. So I've got to cut. I got cut either side. I got cuts either side of the nose down here on the bottom of the nose as well on this eye. [00:04:43] Matt Grainger: And obviously here I have about 25 stitches here, five stitches here. And I just went I knew the session was over and I just paddled back. Everyone was like, we'll get a boat. Everyone's screaming, get a boat, get a boat! That's it. I'm like, I'm good, I'm good. Getting myself back almost on my own. You know, like one guy got scared. Good on ya. Um, this guy Hans from America. He goes, good on you, tough guy. I'm like, nah, I've got this, I got this. Anyway. So I went back and got on the pontoon and just started pouring bottled water over my head. And then I got the boat back to Max and then looked for Shaz, and she was already stitching up my brother. He had a little cut on his back. So. And then someone said,, Matt's looking for you. Cut his head and neck. And she thought,, if he's asking for something, he's in a bad way. So then she saw my head and she thought I'd cracked. I'd actually, like, fractured my skull, but it was actually bits of coral coming out of my head. .Far out. So she pulled that, pulled the bits of coral out. He got some local, which was good. We'll just put it in the carts and then pulling bits of coral out the tweezers, and then got a toothbrush for an hour and just scrubbing it. That was the gnarly part. I just had to. [00:06:01] Michael Frampton: Scrubbing and all this peroxide or iodine or something. Yeah. [00:06:04] Matt Grainger: With, um. Yeah. Just with, um. Yeah. Like light alcohol. Yeah. Just. And just so you don't kill the flesh too much. Like, not too gnarly. Um, but just getting it all out, and that's. I reckon that saved me for sure. And then obviously took about two hours to stitch up, which was gnarly. And I was just doing I've been doing a lot of breath training like coaching, apnea training. And I saw resonance breathing, which is like a second inhale six second exhale. . So just going into that just and that helped big time. That was like a three hour ordeal which could have been a long time. Felt like a long time. But it wasn't as long as I thought. And then she put like a face mask over it so I couldn't see. And then, um, yeah, The rest is history. And then I surfed the next day., you did not. Yeah I know. He taped it up. I just said, I'll get two. I'll get one. Wait, I'll get one wave. And I did some tests, like I was jumping on one leg to see if I had concussion and then, no, I'm not well in the head anyway, uh, and then I came. I wore a helmet, of course, and then I didn't surf for after that day. I didn't surf for three and a half days. And then after that I was good to go because I was on. [00:07:21] Matt Grainger: I was having, uh, four courses of antibiotics. I four, four tablets of antibiotics every day, washing it with, um, fresh water. And we're getting she was breaking up antibiotics and putting it inside the cup as well. Yeah. And she and she left a little bit of one of the gnarly cuts. Didn't do it too tight. So bits of coral would still come out if it did. There's still little bits popping out, far out. But yeah. So I'm wearing a helmet from now on when it's gnarly like that. So I went to G-land. After that we had another swell at Max and Surf Greenbush, but I had one of those soft shell helmets that Tommy Scott wears. Yeah. By, um, DMC. It's like a rugby helmet. Yeah, yeah, but they're nice and light, but they're, um. Yeah. So that that felt good. And then I wore it in g-land every surf even because I didn't want to get hit and break the cuts open anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got the stitches out after six days and they healed well. Yeah. So wow. But from now on I'm going to. If it's gnarly and low tide and heavy, I'll be wearing a helmet. Yeah. No. Fair enough. But I was lucky I didn't get concussion and brain damage or lose an eye or nose or whatever. Yeah., yeah. [00:08:32] Michael Frampton: And I mean, and any sort of coral cut infection is such a huge risk, right? [00:08:38] Matt Grainger: I reckon like, even there was a girl, it was actually a girl out in the water. She. Her name's Kat. She does immense heavy new for about six months with a with harm. So her partner and they they had a long boat with um with a solar panel on top and just go around the islands and she, she had a cut on her foot. She went to seek a cut and just had a shower. So that got that sort of told. And she told me this story like a week before. And then she got this, this flesh eating, um, microbe in her foot. And she basically went delirious and had to go to she went to Padang and their hospital was too dirty and gnarly. So the hands got her out of there, carried her onto the fast ferry, then went to Jakarta and she had like three skin grafts and then back to LA. Yeah, just from that. So that straight away I was like, I'm not getting my head touching any, any, um, any shower water. So I was just it sounds very first world, but I was just every time I wash my head, I was just with bottled water. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a good tip for people out there. yeah. Yeah. Look after your carts. Yeah. Always look after my carts. Even feet. You know, I went to Chofu. First time I went to Chofu in 2000. A tiny little cuts on my feet. And it was the last day. And I was like, last day, who cares? And then I got home and I got stacked. I couldn't walk. I went to my. I went to my glands. And straight away I was on antibiotics and prednisone and it went away. But that was nasty. So it taught me a good lesson. Yeah. So get on, get on to your rep cards quickly people when you go to the tropics. [00:10:17] Michael Frampton: Yeah. You got to clean them eh. I remember I touched the reef in Arugam Bay in Sri Lanka once. Like just got this tiny little graze. Thought nothing of it. Just put like a little bit of iodine cream on it. That's all I did. And then two days later, it's just like 50 cent welt that's throbbing. [00:10:33] Matt Grainger: And I had to hit. [00:10:35] Michael Frampton: Yeah. Had to get some antibiotics. So should have just scrubbed it out with a toothbrush and done the right thing at the time. But it was such a small cut, you thought nothing of it. But they must have just been little bits of coral in there or something. [00:10:47] Matt Grainger: Yeah, yeah, that was one of the ones where the feeder chirps. Tiny little, like little nicks. Yeah. So, yeah, to get that tape. Yeah. So the tip from Shaz. Doctor. Shaz, my partner. Get. Take her. I always have, like, a spare toothbrush. That's clean. You can't even get it from that. If you get it from the hotel. But you never brush your teeth with it, so it's totally clean. And just scrub it. Scrub it. Um, use the little wipes. The the iodine alcohol wipes. So you do one offs and not nothing else dirty. And then just keep checking it. Yeah. And there's that. There's that tayo gin. That's pretty good from Indo. You know that Chinese, that red bottle. That's always cool. That Chinese. It's called tayo gin or the ayam. They don't use cream. She said use because it just festers in the tropics. Use the powder. The powder? Yeah. The powders of the guy. Yeah. Okay. So that's a go and then cover them up. Yeah. If you do your feet too. I always wear shoes. People give me heaps of crap in Indo because I'm always wearing. If I've got cuts, I'll put shoes on because you're walking around. You get dirt in the cuts. Yeah. So it's important if we always forget especially. Yeah. You're like, oh nah, I'll be right. Or, you know, you see so many guys just get smashed and don't even do anything. Yeah. [00:12:03] Michael Frampton: yeah. It's not worth the risk. I used to you're still out charging, catching heaps of waves. [00:12:07] Matt Grainger: Yeah, still surfing a lot. Um, pretty much surf every day. Sometimes twice. Um, got the gym. Surfer's gym. Which is good. That keeps me fit and healthy. They working on the mobility that you taught me years ago, and. Yeah, just building on that. I think that's a big key is mobility. As we get older and even the younger athletes that we coach too. I've got some pros that train at our gym and and we've got them on a mobility program. Whereas strength training and I found lately like in the last few years, like having the ability and also the strength training is huge just for reducing, reducing injury, keeping strong. Like I'm 55 this month. I don't even talk about your age too. It's really important what you say out of your mouth. You know there's a, there's a quote by Bruce Lee is like be careful what you say with your words because that's why it's called spells and spelling. Like you're saying, you hear heaps of guys walk around and go, I'm done. I'm old, I'm an old man and all this. And you're like, hey, mate. Like, no, it's all relative. Like it's it's you know what? It's time. Really anyway. You know, like just this thing we've made up, but, you know, there's biological age. And if you keep yourself fit and healthy and moving and eat well, sleep well. You can keep keep rocking till you're in your 80s, I reckon. [00:13:29] Michael Frampton: Yeah, man, I was just reading. Listening to a book, actually, about all of that. And this Harvard professor did an experiment where she got a bunch of 80 year old men, and she put them in a house where everything in the house was as if it was 30 years ago, and they were only allowed. So the TV programs, the books, the furniture, and they were only allowed to talk, talk about things as if it was 30 years ago in the present. And within a few days, their eyesight improved. Health, like blood pressure, improved everything just by just like placebo. Like extreme placebo effect. Wow. [00:14:11] Matt Grainger: That's awesome. Yeah, it's rare to get that book. [00:14:14] Michael Frampton: It's a rare book. I'll. I'll forward it to you and I'll put it in the show notes for listeners, too. I think it's called the mind body Connection or something. I'll put it in the show notes and I'll send it to you. [00:14:23] Matt Grainger: And even when I was at, um, not trying to name drop here, but when I was at Nazaré, I came in, I totally led back to the harbor because he broke down. It's quite funny. Like it was a big day. Like 60 foot. Perfect. Nazaré. And I was with Lucas Pereira, who's from Mavericks, who trains with me. He was towing with me on that. We were just shifting partners all day. And then I said, you lead like I don't even know lead any way from then. And I said, you make leads out to sea doing nothing. We should go check on him. And he's like, yeah, right. So we hammered out the lead and he goes, yeah, I ran out of fuel, guys. And you're like, why? He goes, I was having too much fun. You know, every time the beeper light came on the warning signal that was low on fuel, I just turned it off. And because it was a really good day and it was a really good Nazaré, like, clean 60 foot faces and whatnot. Anyway, so I, we hooked up my ski to his ski and towed him back to the harbor. And we got back to the, um, got back to the wharf, and I was just chatting to him about how we've got a gym and I've been following what he does working XPT programs, and I do a lot of breathwork, but I really like breathwork. [00:15:36] Matt Grainger: And and I said, yeah, yeah, we don't we don't talk about age, you know, in our gym because what you said the word, don't you ever say that word in front of me again. And he got really gnarly. And I was like, okay, man, settle down. And um, so it's there's a lot of truth to it. Hey, I see, like, Chaz is, um, she's my wife. She's over 60, and she's getting better because she only started 20 years. And there's guys at the beaches that used to rip when they were 20, and they've given up at 50, or probably given up at 50 because it's in their mindset., my knees and stuff and my back stuff. And you're like, well, what do you do about it? Do you um, do you do any mobility or you know, what are you eating? What are you how are you sleeping? Or you know, I don't know. They're like, I don't know, you just like, okay. So yeah, it's funny isn't it? And I think I think we were lucky our age like we've, we've been introduced to a lot of stuff. And if you're curious about it, which you are and I am, there's so much stuff you can learn going down that rabbit holes. [00:16:41] Michael Frampton: yeah. It's never ending. Kind of. [00:16:42] Matt Grainger: Ten. The crew ten years before us, probably a lot of them missed out on that eating poor food, poor movement. Um, yeah, I think it's good. I've got the hoop. I've had the hoop for, like, uh, probably five years now. I find that's really good because I'm. I'm really diligent about my sleep. It can be gnarly some days, and it gives you a bad sleep score. You've got to kind of let that go, and not even your day is ruined. Because I know some athletes who will like that, and they're like, I had to get rid of it because it said I had a bad sleep score and I'd have a bad day. I'm like, no, no, you got to get past that. But sleep is huge. Hey, like and probably read that book by Matthew Walker that was, you know, everyone knew how important sleep was. You know, we cure cancer and all sorts of ailments. Balance. Yeah. So yeah, they'll always I try to have a little nap in the Arvo if I get time. Yeah. Try to have a nap every Arvo. And I think it's good to have a nap if I have the luxury, because you're just not talking. You're not thinking. You're just having a little break from the world and then back into it. Have a training session at the gym with the crew and then dinner in bed again. So that's my little routine. Yeah. And not being and not used to have to always wake up super early or to plan that I ought to be up early and out there for stuff. But if now if the waves aren't that good, I'm not going to get up early just to punish myself for the early just for the sake of being the first guy out there. So now, because I've found on the sleep on your sleep scores, when you do actually sleep that extra hour in the morning. Yeah. You get a lot of benefits. It's crazy. And if you do go to bed early. Yeah. Mm. [00:18:18] Michael Frampton: Does does is surfing the main motivator for you to stay fit and healthy? [00:18:23] Matt Grainger: Yeah. For sure. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Like I couldn't give a stuff like what I look like. I just want to actually be able to catch waves and still be able to surf. My brother and I just went to Macaronis together and we were both chatting that we probably surf better now than we were in our mid 20s, just because the boards are better. We've got more knowledge and we've kept our bodies good. Yeah. Yeah. So we've had no we've had no serious accidents though which is lucky. you know obviously head knocks and all that kind of stuff but nothing like haven't broken any major bones like bony broken hands and a few things like that, but not, you know, haven't broken a femur or anything, you know. So some guys obviously are disadvantaged if they have a major injury but haven't had any major injuries. And then now I've realized I used to always think when I was have had a niggle like a, like a niggling hip or, you know, you had to go to the chiropractor and you had to do this, you had to do and now you can kind of push through it and move through it. [00:19:24] Matt Grainger: I found that like. And if it's really serious, obviously go and see a physician, which is good. and you can get a really good massage or just to break that tissue down. But I found now you can move through pain and throughout the whole day like not, you know, everyone thinks, I've got to train for an hour and that's it. So I don't do it. You know, you can do little snacks like ten minutes here, you know, ten minutes in the morning, another ten minutes at lunchtime, another two minutes here, and then another two minutes and eventually kind of work through it. I remember when we were working together, you were pretty onto that early in the early days. Good diets. I love I like got into my fasting, which is good pretty much two meals a day. Love the bone broth. I'm doing a coffee, obviously. Black coffee, a little bit of coconut oil. So, yeah, that's just all these little hacks that we're learning. Just helping along the way, I reckon. [00:20:21] Michael Frampton: Yeah, but you've got that motivation. You want to keep surfing, you want to keep going to Indo and that's what. Yeah. That's what get you. Okay. No I'm not going to have that donut. I'm going to and I'm going to go to bed early because I want to I want to go and get barreled at Indo like. [00:20:36] Matt Grainger: no, it's such a good motivator. Yeah. And and it's, it keeps you young. Yeah. It keeps you young and young in the head too. And looking at boards that, you know, I'm still riding shore boards and my short boards like a five, five, nine. And I've got A53 Bobby quad that I ride in the wave pool. Yeah. So I can still ride short boards. yeah. And just having that and and the boards have gotten so good. Now, you know, just the rockers and the things all the shapers. And I remember Mike, Michael Ho was talking with his son Mason. I saw in an interview that he said, oh, dad, why do you think you're ripping so much now? And he goes to the boards and Michael's like, doesn't care. You know, he just he doesn't have Instagram or Facebook. He's just surfing and I've I've seen Coco out in the water when she's in Indo or here and she said, yeah pops. Just he just the proper. So he's, he's, he's not thinking about how he's 60 and he's charging you know. Yeah he's right. He's got, he's got new blades and getting tubed out back door and ripping on the backside at Alma-Ata and things like that. But yeah, that's the motivation is surfing. Yeah. And it's, it's such a fun sport. And I just always say to people, it's a puzzle. [00:21:51] Matt Grainger: You know, you every time you go for a surf, you're trying to work out that puzzle. It doesn't matter if it's one foot onshore or it's 20 foot bommies or it's crazy tubes in Indo, you're still trying to figure out how you're going to paddle in. How are you going to get to your feet? How are you going to generate speed? Is it a straight down drop? Is it a knifing drop? Am I going to get in my front foot early? All these little things that just come into play from all those years of experience, and you're trying to work out that puzzle, and then it's one foot. You just want to go out and do one big turn on a one footer and you're happy. So that's what keeps me motivated. Some days, even if it's crap, I'll still go out for like three waves and just I'll get my three waves and go to work and train. And I've got the training to, I've got rid of the cardio. So I'm sort of not really doing the cardio so much now. It's just strength and movement because if you do a good movement flow, you can get good cardio from that anyway. Yeah, I forgot my heart rate monitor and you're actually getting flexi, whereas you don't want to get stiff and then just doing the right strength training. [00:22:53] Matt Grainger: So you look at all the surfers now it's all legs, hardly any upper body, only back and legs. You don't want any chest and you don't want to overload the shoulders as well in your you know, the rotator cuff exercises are really good. So light weights on the shoulders, nothing heavy. So you can still get that mobility in your paddle. And you've got the power through your back for your paddle. So a lot of the strength training is like just Olympic rings, pull ups, maybe some skin. The cat. yeah. dumbbell pull ups as well, off the bench, all that kind of stuff. And then a lot of, a lot of,, obviously squats with the barbell, goblet squats, front squats, split squats, all that kind of stuff. It's super important, I reckon. So getting that mobility and doing the weights and getting that connection and feeling when you're doing the weight, not just doing it for the sake of it, like doing those reps and really thinking about that rep and just getting your body in those positions that you could do in the water on land. So when you go out there like a martial artist, you're you're ready to go. You've drilled it so many times it becomes second nature. Yeah. [00:24:01] Michael Frampton: No, strength training is so good. It's also for like strength training gives you it increases your body awareness actually, and just increases your maintains your bone density. And it's just it's so helpful. And if you're doing it do upper body. Lower body. It's it's about as doesn't get any more hard of a cardio workout than doing like a strength training circuit if you want to, you know, get the heart rate up. [00:24:26] Matt Grainger: What sort of work? What sort of stuff are you doing these days, like in your regime? [00:24:30] Michael Frampton: . Mine's so I had I've got,, I had ACL surgery in my early 20s and it's now almost, you know, bone on bone, basically. So a lot of my, a lot of my training is just keeping on top of that. so like, slow moving, heavy stuff with,, you know, have you seen the knees over toes guy? [00:24:55] Matt Grainger: Yeah, yeah. He's awesome. [00:24:56] Michael Frampton: Hey, backwards walking on the treadmill and just. Yeah, following some of his stuff. Uh, and just to keep the legs strong. Because it's interesting. Because they say it's bone on bone, right? And it can get like that, but your cartilage is gone. Your cartilage doesn't really come back. But there is scar tissue forms where the cartilage was. As long as that scar tissue is there, you're fine. If you do too much stuff and that scar tissue wears away. So if you do too much volume and you don't allow that scar tissue to to heal and reform and the fluids to come back, then it can be bone on bone, you get a real sore joint. But so now, as long as I keep the volume of what I'm doing on the knee, it's fine. You can actually you can actually go. [00:25:39] Matt Grainger: How many reps? [00:25:41] Michael Frampton: Actually, I would just sort of more like six reps. Only a couple of sets. But you know, because I've got a history of strength training. I know the form. I'm strong, I know what to do. But a backwards walking on the treadmill and some and lots of balance work as well, because it's actually those small little twitching movements in the joint that do the most damage. So if your balance is on point and your joint is nice and stable, then it's one of the big things as well. So keeping the balance, like standing on one leg with your eyes closed. Little things like that. Yeah I do. [00:26:16] Matt Grainger: I love the pendulum jumps with the, you know, the pendulum jump. So it's a one legged jump. Yeah. and we'll do that. More eyes closed as well. Yeah. When I coach a lot of the athletes as well, like before, they were competing, like, I'd say, like they'll do five jumps, eyes open, and then the last five closed. And it helps for that body awareness, you know, for late drops and. yeah, no big drops out of the lip and being aware of where their body is. Yeah. Yeah. And I even did it when I crack my head to check if I had concussion, I was like, yes, I'm fine. You know. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a doctor. But if you can jump one legged with your eyes closed, you pretty much. And you're fine. You don't have concussion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:03] Michael Frampton: No, I do a bit of sprinting. Sprinting as well. Sprinting is really good for you. So I do a bit of that and I still do like the bodyweight gymnastics style strength training as well. Still doing that. Following a guy called, uh, Nardi. Oh, man, I can't even pronounce his name. Nardi Orejuela or I can't remember how to pronounce it, but it's functional performance training. He's doing a lot of really unique stuff. He's worth a follow. He's pretty out there with some of what he says, but he's also got some really interesting tips. A lot of, you know, not necessarily heavy weights, but functional, functional stuff. Just he's worth a follow. [00:27:39] Matt Grainger: Cool. yeah. [00:27:40] Michael Frampton: And just keeping on top of the diet, diet and sleep, man, that's like you mentioned, man. Just keeping a clean diet, getting enough sleep and giving a good balance of rest and stress. [00:27:49] Matt Grainger: Because, yeah, life can get stressful, but it's only what you make it really like. But yeah, if you if you sleep well, if you have a good sleep, you can conquer anything. Really. Hey, I'll find two. The shoulders are important. Like the rotator cuff muscles. Important to keep that on top of that. Just like maintenance work like prehab, like lightweights, like 10% of your body weight, just getting in all those different angles because you do you can, you know, when you're, you know, those days when you're paddling super hard trying to make that wave where it's hollow, you're going to put a lot of stress on the shoulder joint. And I've had seen so many mates like you look at you got to look at your mates who had surgeries, you know what I mean? Like, it's always so, shoulders, knees and hips if you look after those. And spine pretty much ahead of the game. Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:40] Michael Frampton: Hanging dude. Hanging for your shoulders. Really good. [00:28:45] Matt Grainger: Just hanging. Awesome. [00:28:46] Michael Frampton: Active and passive. Hanging. And, I mean, I'm lucky. When I was living in the US, I did. I did three different DNS courses., yeah. [00:28:55] Matt Grainger: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember you doing that. Yeah. [00:28:57] Michael Frampton: And so I do a lot of that sort of rehab style training still. And that's really good for shoulders and and core that helps keep my shoulders in check. [00:29:07] Matt Grainger: I remember, I remember you got injured and I did the Ido portal course. Yes, I remember you did. Yeah, I think you did your hamstring right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. And I was a day before and he said, Matti, can you do this? And I went, yeah. And did a whole week with it. [00:29:22] Michael Frampton: Yeah. That's right. [00:29:23] Matt Grainger: Yeah. He was massive. It was massive on hanging. Yeah. And you know, the ring and the rings too. Yeah. And I find the rings or rings are better for a surfer too. Like doing chin ups, pull ups on a ring because you get that nice. Like you get that movement in the shoulder joint where it's just a straight bar. You don't really get that movement because we actually reach out and rotate our shoulder as we paddle. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, it was it was pretty. It was an interesting guy. Cool guy. Full on. Yeah. He is. Yeah. But yeah, I learned a lot. Yeah. [00:29:59] Michael Frampton: cool. Are you still doing ice baths? [00:30:01] Matt Grainger: Still doing that. [00:30:02] Michael Frampton: Yeah. [00:30:03] Matt Grainger: And our boss. And so on. Got an ice bath in the backyard and a sauna, which is lucky. And we got two at the gym now. We got two saunas and two ice baths. Wow. So. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Everyone loves them. Yeah. Everyone's created a little community there. Yeah, yeah. It's awesome. [00:30:21] Michael Frampton: What about LA? Have you looked into Light Health? [00:30:24] Matt Grainger: I have seen it. I haven't really done it personally. And it just looks it looks pretty interesting. It's just a matter of time and money. Yeah. In our in our sauna. I do have some infrared, but, like, not, some lighting, but, you know, it's not huge. Have you been looking into it? Well, it's it's just really interesting. [00:30:42] Michael Frampton: There's this guy, Jack cruise, who's been on about it for years, but now that there's sort of like 20 years, but now there's all these scientific studies coming out proving his theories right about how important, sunlight exposure is for health and how it turns on certain genes like the Pomc gene and and how if you're exposing yourself to too much blue light after the sun's gone down, how that affects blood sugar and circadian rhythms. And but if I mean, if you're getting up and going, surfing every day and getting to bed on time, it's funny, that's all. [00:31:14] Matt Grainger: Like Huberman and all that, like, yeah, they say go out and play, you know, go get the sun. Yeah. And, I, we live on the East Coast here, so every early surf, you're like, looking into the sun exactly in the morning. You know, you're blinking, going oh. And, you know, different on the West Coast. Yeah. If you go to bed at the right time. And I try not to look at my phone before I go to bed. So, Yeah, I just try to banish that, put it away because. Yeah, that's a bad habit, isn't it? Just before looking at the screen, try to look at computers as well. So onto that in that way. Yeah. Yeah. You can just go. Yeah. Just basic stuff. Yeah. Keeping those circadian rhythms. Yeah. Haven't done the glasses or anything like that. Like the. [00:31:58] Michael Frampton: The blue blocking glasses. Yeah. [00:32:01] Matt Grainger: Dave Asprey and whatnot. [00:32:02] Michael Frampton: Yeah. Yeah, they get into it a lot. They go hardcore on everything. [00:32:06] Matt Grainger: They go hardcore. I'm like, no. How am I? It's none of them. Don't you think there's a fine line between how much time you got in the day and. [00:32:15] Michael Frampton: exactly. But I mean, David Beckham and his mates, they're spending a lot of money on, like, days. Dave Asprey has a goal to live to 120. I think he might have even said 100, 150. But like and be healthy and functional at that age. So he's making sure that, you know, every day he's doing as much as he can. So those guys are going. I don't know. [00:32:38] Matt Grainger: I don't know if I want to live that long. Yeah. It's damn sad. You know what I mean? Like, you kind of want to just die normally. You know, like. [00:32:45] Michael Frampton: With dignity. Yeah. [00:32:47] Matt Grainger: Dignity? Yeah. Like you don't have to go. Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:50] Michael Frampton: Because if you're the only, you're the only one doing it. And like, you're you're still alive and healthy. Yeah. Friends are dead. You're like. [00:32:58] Matt Grainger: What was that? I mean, let's talk about that all the time. Yeah. They just overboard and and almost bring a lot of anxiety, I think, to like trying to keep on point. Like you're not actually like they want to get to this goal of being this age, but they're not actually having fun in the present. Like it's like I've still got to live your life. Hey, you got to still have fun with your friends, with your friends. And, you know, like, I'm not like, a total. I'm. There's no way I'm a total monk. Like, I'm. I still eat really well, but if I, you know, if I'm with with friends and family, I'm not going to go. I'm not eating that because I'm this, you know, like, yeah, I'll still want to be part of the group, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's not going to kill me. Yeah. I don't want to have a good time with with my friends. I'm not going to be that guy that's like, oh, no, I don't do that. Because, I want to live to 150. [00:33:46] Michael Frampton: Exactly. Yeah. I'm going to go to bed at 8:00 on Christmas Day because you want to live to 150? [00:33:55] Matt Grainger: You know, it's kind of like. Yeah, it's counterintuitive. Really? [00:33:59] Michael Frampton: Yeah. [00:34:00] Matt Grainger: What about if you get to whatever, you get hit by a car? Exactly. You know. Exactly. I don't mean that in a bad way.. You got it. Still? Yeah. And it's funny, like, all this grounding, you know, we we hardly wear shoes in was, you know, you hardly wear shoes when I, when I hang out with you. Yeah, but hardly shoes. Oh, Maddy, you're wearing shoes today. That's weird. I'm like, oh, well, I had to go to remaining shoes. [00:34:27] Michael Frampton: I hate. [00:34:28] Matt Grainger: It. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:34:30] Michael Frampton: No, but that's the thing. All the stuff that's coming out in the latest health stuff, all these guys, it's what we do anyway. Especially as surfers. We get early morning sun. We're getting lots of grounding work because we're surfing in the ocean. That's the best way to get your. Your grounding done is in the ocean or walking on the sand in bare feet. We're getting it done anyway. But it's just interesting, all these studies coming out and and proving that. [00:34:55] Matt Grainger: You can you can buy a grounding mat and walk outside. Put your feet on the on the cold grass, you know, like, the cold sand. Like I'll be surfing the wave pool a lot lately and it's super fun. But you still don't get that, feeling of the energy or the ocean. Like, you know, it doesn't matter if your body surf, surf, body board, whatever. If you dive in the ocean for a swim, you always come out feeling amazing, don't you? Yeah. Just from it's from the negative ions though, isn't it. [00:35:24] Michael Frampton: Yeah. That's part of it. Yeah. [00:35:25] Matt Grainger: Yeah, yeah part of it. Yeah. And just maybe the salt, the energy of the waves just being in nature and. Yeah, it's funny, you can go on the wave pool and you have a good time. You don't get that buzz of that feeling on your whole body from the natural waves. Yeah. And the salt and all that. Yeah. [00:35:46] Michael Frampton: How much time have you spent in the wave pools? [00:35:49] Matt Grainger: there's a new one in Sydney now. Sydney and I. Every Thursday I teach a fitness class to the staff. I've been doing that for the past six weeks. So I go out every Thursday and I make sure I serve from 4 to 5, and then I run the class at 530 to 630. So that's pretty cool. Like, I'll ride my little five three Bobby quad and, get about 20 waves. And then we ran our we ran a pretty cool course the other week. We did a get ready for your master class. It was like an endo masterclass clinic. So we taught people how to ride left tubes. So we had the expert mode, which is just a barrel. It's pretty cool. You take off, you can do a Rio or just a set up turn and get this nice tube. That's a pretty cool tube. Like the barrel is wider than it is high. Yeah, you got to get quite low in the tube. And then it kind of turned the corner a bit like macaronis. So we did um, we did about 30 minutes. I broke down all the best surfers in the world getting tubed on the TV screen have had eight participants, and so we broke that down for placement, for backhand front side, you know, getting and then we did movement patterns like mobility patterns to open up people's hips and, and ankles, because that's pretty much what you need when getting low in tubes and most tube riding. [00:37:08] Matt Grainger: So we did that, we went and surfed for an hour. Everyone got about 12 waves. And then we there's a I it's crazy. They film this. I called Flow State on the left and the right, but we're only on the left. You come in and it's got all the clips of you. So I got a coaches password. So I went through everyone's clips and broke down what they were doing. Right. What they're doing wrong. Yeah, it was rad. And then we had had lunch and then we did apnea training. So then we went into the leisure pool, which is heated because the wave pool is only about 11 degrees at the moment. So yeah, it's quite it's quite cold. Yeah. So they just pulled 28. So we, we taught them the science of breath holding. Then we went and did it in the water. And then she did a chat on our endo. What's it like in your first aid kit? And, you know, rough cuts? Yeah, it was awesome. That was a that was a full day. It was fun. [00:38:00] Michael Frampton: All right. So I did. [00:38:01] Matt Grainger: That., had some fun days with the Surface Gym crew. We'll book out the pool for two hours. And so two different modes, one the tube, the expert modes and tube. And they've got advanced, which is half turns, half tube. Yeah. It's pretty cool. Good fun. And then Isabella Nichols two. She'll fly down and we'll I'll coach her for two days before an event. So before Huntington, we tested out two of the boards. See what you actually got. Two brand new boards of the HD and then obviously had more, but she had these two boards that she thought were going to be the ones. And they were so pretty cool to work that out. Yeah, we did some also some work before Bolido. So it's not a it's a good coaching tool. Yeah., because you got you guaranteed getting one left and right, so I'll book it. We'll book a session on the right and the left, and you're right there that she can come in and break it down each wave and go through some foot placement and hand placement stuff where you place the board on the wave and back out there. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. And you got all the footage on film as well and also got the flow state. [00:39:04] Michael Frampton: All right. It's like the driving range for surfers. [00:39:07] Matt Grainger: Yeah it is. It's the full driving range. So it keeps you fit too. Like it's actually it's a full leg workout because the way you get weaker, you've got to stay right in the pocket and push real hard with your feet and your hips. Yeah a lot of. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. Yeah. It's good. Good fun. You feel like especially in the tube major. Every time I'm just on the tube I feel like a 15 year old kid again. Like you're guaranteed a barrel. You know, you're guaranteed 15 to 20 barrels that up and. Yeah. Pretty amazing. [00:39:34] Michael Frampton: Oh, that's so good. you're still doing good. Did you. Are you still taking people to macarons as well? [00:39:40] Matt Grainger: Yeah, we've got one coming up, yeah. Next February, March 2025. We're doing. Chaz is doing the movement, and I'm doing the surfing right. Yeah, we've got two and I got a goose and Ari, who helped us as well as coaching. They're awesome guys and good coaches. Yeah. Yeah. It's rad. Yeah. So we basically surf from 6 a.m. till 1130 and there's two filmers there. So they the filmers get all the footage and then we, we break down the footage at 1:00 for about an hour, and then we'll go surfing again. And then sometimes if the waves are small, we'll do apnea training in the pool. So that's like a week, seven day classes or seven day clinics. So and then some people do two weeks. Yeah. Wow. But yeah it's super fun. And you know, we go to the Thunders as well because, uh, McKenzie's small. It's always two foot bigger up there. So yeah, it's good fun. Yeah. It's an awesome, awesome clinic because it's such a mechanical wave that goes from 1ft to 6 foot. Such a rippable wave. You know, just in the pocket. You can work on people's techniques and you see people improve real quick because they've got a running wall. It's not like a, you know, sitting right here, but sometimes you can just get close down. If it's the south swell you just got, you know, the people can only do one turn if that. Obviously if it's perfect, no swells here. Great. You know, all the all the, all the beaches are lining up. Machias is unbelievable. You can do four turns so you can really work on people's, you know how they you know how they sort of start the wave speed generation where they do their bottom turn, their top turn and good place for an upper body rotation. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. It's good fun. Yeah. All right. That's it. [00:41:29] Michael Frampton: They all filled up. Clean up? [00:41:31] Matt Grainger: Uh. Not yet. No, I think there's still some spots left. Yeah. So they're filling macaroni, doing the marketing right now for next year, but yeah, they get. Yeah. We got some good numbers this year. I think next year is going to be even better. Yeah. So it's a good gig? Yeah. It's good fun. Yeah. And, you know, good, good bonding with people. Everyone's there to learn and have a good time. [00:41:51] Michael Frampton: I'll put a link to to details about that. Show notes. [00:41:55] Matt Grainger: Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. [00:41:57] Michael Frampton: You guys had a big swell there a few days. Yeah. We had. [00:42:01] Matt Grainger: Yeah. Last week. Uh, last. Yeah, we had a massive swell. Monday. Tuesday. Wednesday. Thursday. Friday. Only bummer had really strong southerly winds. So we, being the captain, towed the car and naughty bomb in the mornings when it was southwest. And then the wind just came up and blew it out. The dead man's was on. Yeah. We got to surf that on our own. Dead man's pumping. Have a look at that. [00:42:27] Michael Frampton: I saw the footage. Yeah, some of it, but it was. [00:42:30] Matt Grainger: It wasn't many people making them. Hey, it looked pretty gnarly. How cool is it? If you have a look at, uh, this is living by Carl how often he flew. He flew all the way over for it. [00:42:41] Matt Grainger: He does that. does that blog and, Yeah, he did. He didn't even make a way. Like a proper big one. He didn't make one way. He broke in the board, got smashed. He was coming this way. Gnarly. Cuz it's kind of like the heavy cake. Then it's got a step. Yeah. And if it doesn't open up, it just collapses on you. Yeah. And you don't know when you're paddling in. You're going to be a good one or not. there's one guy called Sam Jones. Got a cracker like he made. He actually made a really good one. But the rest of the crew. Yeah. Pretty much got smashed. There was a lot of carnage. Choo choo. Kelleher did a big airdrop. Dislocated his elbow joint., he got that? no. He just airdropped and then went back over the fall. Popping the elbow. Yeah, I'm kind of done with that wave. I know it's pretty gnarly backside. You just be looking for an injury and it's crowded now. Like I have to surf it on my own with, like, you know, 4 or 5 people. And now it's everyone's out there trying to get their photo taken or their clip, which is cool. You know, they're all younger and there'll be 30, 40 people out on a semi-closed reef that's 10 to 12 foot. [00:43:52] Matt Grainger: So we can get the jet skiing off the off the car and step on it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And then we can check out Makaha, you know, go. Makaha. German banks, North Bay cruise around being the captain. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah. You got to be ready to go for dead man's like I've. I've snapped boards out there. I've had 30 sea urchins at my 40 out there once. I just went over the falls and landed feet first. And that was pretty gnarly. Injury. Went to hospital. Like, I, I couldn't walk, so I had to paddle back to North Steyne, back to the school, and drove up to the hospital. And they couldn't even get they left about four in there. And then three stayed. Three stayed in there for about three months. And and I Right when I popped out about that big, like three months later when I went snowboarding. gnarly. I remember Barton Barton Lynch actually got. He had to go to surgery with sea urchins out there. Scotty Romaine broke his back about four years ago. Out there, captains broke ins, MCL, PCL. Just copy breaking your ribs. Yeah, that's a good way to get injured. But it's if you're young, young buck and you want to charge, go for it. [00:45:03] Michael Frampton: Well you gotta you gotta pay to play sometimes. [00:45:06] Matt Grainger: Yeah. Yeah yeah. The, the the risk out there that have outweigh the rewards. But yeah there's some really there's some good surfing going on. Some of the young guys the young guys in pressure like so grueling. Lex O'Connor, some of the young dudes are like 18 year olds just charging it and making barrels, too. So. But this last world was pretty wonky. But we had a real good swell a week before that. Like a beast or a swell like Narromine was off its face, mouth narrower. We had like nor'west winds and eight foot barrels and that was that was pretty fun. So yeah, that was a more user friendly. And it was pumping north out or the whole East Coast. Yeah. On the Sydney Northern Beaches was going off. So yeah that went that went for three days. So we've had a really good year. Last year was about like a pretty bad winter. Yeah. To be here for Sydney and the sandbanks are good because we had that big swell. But yeah, pretty pretty stoked. What about yourself? Any waves your way? [00:46:05] Michael Frampton: Some. Not. Not too many. We've had a shit winter, actually. We've had heaps of. Usually you get the southerly swells here where I'm staying at the moment, but,, I've just been heaps of northerly nor east swells of low period for some reason. Almost like summer had weird weather patterns here. The south swells that come through have heaps of west in them, so they just go straight past. I don't know. [00:46:27] Matt Grainger: And the baits are good. [00:46:28] Michael Frampton: There's there's points and river bars around here. So we just need a decent high, long period swell and it turns on, but it still goes surfing but. And get waves and had a great summer. Great summer with the kids. Yeah. [00:46:42] Matt Grainger: Awesome. [00:46:43] Michael Frampton: But the winters. Yeah. Average winter here. And it's pretty. [00:46:47] Matt Grainger: Crazy. We've actually got,, the water's cold, like, it's, 14 degrees. Yeah. So sometimes it'll be. It'll be 20 in winter usually. But this year it's cold. Yeah, but the good. Yeah. So every morning pretty much offshore. So that's kind of cool. Yeah. With this with this cold water being lucky. Yeah. Random. [00:47:06] Michael Frampton: The water here, the water here is warmer than usual. I can still go surfing in A23 at the moment. No way. Yeah. The water's so warm here. It's just all these east and northeast flow. It's keeping the water warm. [00:47:19] Matt Grainger: That's pretty cool. Yeah, we. The wave pools. The wave pool. Actually, the concrete holds the cold. yeah, I bet I pulled about about 1111. [00:47:29] Michael Frampton: That's 43 bodies business. [00:47:31] Matt Grainger: Yeah, yeah, I just I don't wear booties, but I the guy's wearing gloves and hoods and just make sure you paddle out real quick and keep yourself warm. But yeah, last year we were last year we went to, Mexico and I. Yeah. So that was cool., but this year I'm just going to hang back. I've been building this app called The Surfer's Compass, so I want to get that out by the 1st of September. Hopefully I'll be doing that for a year. So just breaking down all the best surfers in the world. Women and men take offs, paddling, bottom turn, top turns, cuttings, airs, tubes and then throwing in movement patterns that will help those maneuvers and then breathwork and mindset. Yeah. So that's been a fun little project. [00:48:15] Michael Frampton: All right. [00:48:16] Matt Grainger: So yeah be working on that. I was helping with the graphics and Joe Barker with all the edits. But yeah, that's keeping me busy. It's like a, you know like you've done a lot of projects and you just want to get it done? Yeah. I mean, I'd want to do it right, but we were told we probably could have had it done in May, but I want to do it perfect. So yeah, hopefully we get it out by. Yeah. So I got like Ethan Ewing, Mick Fanning and Kelly Slater, Jeff Gilmore, Aaron Brooks, Isabella Nichols. [00:48:42] Michael Frampton: Parker cool. Look forward to seeing it. [00:48:44] Matt Grainger: Yeah. So that's what's keeping me busy. Yeah, yeah. And all the other stuff. The surf school and and the surf gym. [00:48:51] Michael Frampton: And all the barrels. [00:48:53] Matt Grainger: All the barrels. [00:48:54] Michael Frampton: Oh, sweet. You have to let let us, let us know when it's when it's released. And I'll spread the word. [00:48:58] Matt Grainger: Sure. That'll be awesome. Yeah. But yeah, you can't beat a barrel, can you? I always say to people, once you get it, why don't you get tubed? You're done. You won't be able to hold a relationship or a job and. [00:49:09] Michael Frampton: Yeah, it's addictive. Yeah. Healthy addiction though. It's on my list. I'll probably sit down with the boys this evening and we'll watch the replays and stuff. Yeah, one. [00:49:18] Matt Grainger: Of the local boys did really well, so yeah, it's pretty, pretty good result. You got to check it out. Yeah, it's actually awesome spectacle. How was,. Did you see the the big day? Yeah. [00:49:29] Michael Frampton: Yeah. No, I watched that with. [00:49:31] Matt Grainger: Joe and Ramsey. Booker. Joe, do you reckon they were charging harder than the WSL because there was more on the line, like, you know, medals and, like, they always charge in the WAFL that they go hard as. But some of them are not the nailing. Some of the Wipeouts were heavy weren't they. But yeah. [00:49:47] Michael Frampton: And also. [00:49:48] Matt Grainger: Connor O'Leary. [00:49:49] Michael Frampton: Though also like they had different camera angles too to the. So I don't know if they had even more expensive cameras to it just. Yeah different like just a higher level production as well. I think that helped. but certainly in the Medina it was just always everything Medina does just looks effortless, doesn't it? [00:50:06] Matt Grainger: It's that good, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. He's amazing. Yeah. He's. He's,. Yeah. There. Ethan Ewing. Yeah. They're solid as those guys. But it was good seeing the other guy from Peru. Yeah, it was Cabrera, wasn't it? Yeah. Like,. Yeah. Just seeing the other countries. That's pretty good, isn't it, about the Olympics, like, cared a lot more diversity. Yeah. I mean, I love the WAFL, but especially when they do the cup after the cup is just too much familiar., everyone's too familiar. You know, you go,, I've seen this heat before, even though it's in a different location. But it's good when you get wild cards and that variety and you just think,, I've seen another angle of surfing, you know, like, wow, this guy's insane. [00:50:48] Michael Frampton: All right. Matt. Hey, it's just gone 3:00. I better go in there. I got to do school pickup now, but thanks for thanks for doing the show again. Really appreciate it. [00:50:57] Matt Grainger: Awesome, mate. Awesome, brother. Take it easy. [00:51:00] Michael Frampton: Good to catch up. [00:51:01] Matt Grainger: Good one. Hopefully. See you when you come to Sydney. [00:51:03] Michael Frampton: That'd be great. Yeah. For sure. We'll be over there at some point., yeah. Keep me in. Keep me in the loop. Yeah, yeah. Keep me in the loop with the app. So. Yeah. Excellent. [00:51:13] Matt Grainger: That'd be cool. Awesome. Awesome, mate. [00:51:15] Michael Frampton: Thank you for tuning in to the Surf Mastery podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Also, the best way that you can help support and grow the show is to subscribe, rate and review on whatever app you're using, be it Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and of course, we are now on YouTube, so you can watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube. Be sure to check that out. Also, go to Surf mastery.com for more surfing tips via the blog. You can also book in a personal online surf coaching session with me, also at Surf mastery.com. There are two free downloadable PDFs, one with the five best tips from this show, and one the five best exercises to improve your surfing. So go to Surf mastery.com on the home page there. You'll see them. Until next time, keep surfing. Matt Grainger on the Surf Mastery Podcast…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
100 Devon Howard-Understanding the Connection Between Form and Style in Surfing

29 weeks yang lalu

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In this milestone 100th episode of the Surf Mastery Podcast, host Michael Frampton welcomes back the stylish surfer Devon Howard . Broadcasting from the Channel Islands office in Santa Barbara, Devon shares his insights on the elusive concept of style in surfing. The episode delves into the historical evolution of style, its significance in competitive surfing, and the subjective nature of defining style. Devon emphasizes the importance of making difficult maneuvers look effortless and how personal demeanor often mirrors one's surfing style. He contrasts the stylistic approaches of surfers like Joel Parkinson and Kelly Slater with the more explosive style of Adriano de Souza. Listeners are encouraged to focus on form over presentation, maintain a relaxed and efficient approach, and view style as a natural extension of personal expression. Episode Highlights: Introduction to Devon Howard: Recap of Devon's previous appearances on episodes 41, 77, and 86. Importance of Style in Surfing: Exploring the subjective nature of style and its impact on surfing performance and aesthetics. Origins of the Word 'Style': Michael provides a brief etymology of the word 'style' and its various meanings throughout history. Cultural Influence on Style: How different surf cultures and eras emphasize or de-emphasize style. Effortless Style: The concept of making difficult maneuvers look easy and the importance of being relaxed and calm. Influence of Personality on Style: How a surfer’s personality often reflects in their surfing style. Contrived vs. Natural Style: The difference between genuinely stylish surfing and trying too hard to look stylish. Technical Aspects of Style: Tips for improving style through form, patience, and not rushing maneuvers. Style in Tube Riding: The inherent style in good tube riding and how it relates to other surfing maneuvers. Practical Advice: Devon’s practical advice for surfers aiming to improve their style. Key Quotes: Devon Howard: “Style is oftentimes making the difficult look easy.” Michael Frampton: “You can be quick without being rushed.” Devon Howard: “Don’t try to contrive it. Don’t rush your surfing.” Follow Devon Howard Check out Devon’s surfing and updates on his Instagram. Devon_howard Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/devon-howard-a4b2a613/ . Connect with Surf Mastery: Surf Mastery Website: Download the free PDF with the top five tips from the Surf Mastery Podcast at surfmastery.com . Instagram: Surf Mastery Full Show Transcript: Devon Howard: When I. When I often think about style, there's always like there's two camps. There's the people that get it and and style is usually it's like you know it when you see it. I said, how do you know that something's pornographic versus art or beauty? And a lot of times the answer is, well, you know, when you see it, you know, something is gross or smut as opposed to art. Michael Frampton: Welcome back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton, and this is episode 100 of the podcast. A little bit of a milestone. Special guest for this episode. And we've also revamped the website Surf Mastery. Com and on the front page of that website is a free PDF listing the top five tips from the Surf Mastery Podcast. So go to Surf mastery.com and you can download that PDF for free. Today's guest. Well, I was looking back through all the stats on this podcast and the the most downloaded episodes have been from Devon Howard, so it made sense to have him on episode 100. And so you can go back and listen to. He first appeared on the show, uh, episode 41, discussing longboarding and nose riding. Then it was back in, uh, episode 77 zero. Uh, we talked about Mid-lengths in episode 86. It was Twin fins. And today in episode 100, Devin Howard joins us again to discuss style. Style is something that is in it's fundamental. It's paramount for every type of surfing that is done, from traditional longboarding all the way through to high performance, short boarding. All of the greats, all of the most memorable surfers have good style. They are stylish. From Joel Tudor in traditional longboarding through to Joel Parkinson as a high performance, competitive short boarder Tom Curren. Uh, mid lengths and twin fins. You got Torin Martin. Michael Frampton: And of course, Devon Howard himself is a very stylish surfer. He's very smooth, very graceful on a longboard, on a mid length and a twin fin. We've even seen some footage of him riding, uh, three thrusters out there on his Instagram. And his style, his technique, his gracefulness runs throughout his surfing. So a perfect topic for us to discuss in episode 100, so I would love to hear your feedback on the show in general. Last 100 episodes and of course this episode. Go ahead, send us an email Mike at Surf mastery.com. Or you can DM me on Instagram or leave a comment under the, uh, the visual for this episode. And of course, support Devin Howard, give his Instagram a follow. And of course, he's, uh, joining us from the Channel Islands office in Santa Barbara. Uh, Devin is currently working with Channel Islands, are working on some new surfboard models as well as he's you know, some of the most popular boards recently have been he's been a part of. So without further adieu, I shall fade in my conversation with Devon Howard. I actually see a lot of agreement between Brett and Chaz on this subject. Yeah, yeah, because there are there are thing right that you go to a Grateful Dead concert and you experience the show and the vibe, you don't really listen to them on Spotify. Devon Howard: Yeah. It's it's something to be enjoyed live. Michael Frampton: Yeah. There's a certain style and vibe to them I think that come across differently in person than it does. And also the audience they sort of draw in. Yeah. Rather to the music on Spotify right there. Devon Howard: There are two bands that I think are better live as well, which I think Radiohead is better live. I like Radiohead, I think a lot of their albums are great. I've been to a few of their shows that I think, no, this is 10 or 15 years ago. I don't know if that's still the case, but at the time when they were really peaking, they were insane live. And then I also saw James Brown live. Oh, wow. 25 years ago. And that was incredible. Mhm. I mean what a showman. Michael Frampton: Yes. Yeah I can imagine I mean there's the Radiohead live from the basement. Um unbelievable. Like gives you I can't remember what album it's they play in full from their studio basement studio and just makes you appreciate them on a whole nother level. Yeah. Just just by watching that on YouTube, not even being there. Well, yeah. Um, I remember seeing a gentleman called AMP Fiddler, another one of the best live acts I ever saw. Um, gave me a new appreciation of his music. He's sort of new, new age funk slash reggae. Um. Interesting music. Yeah. Catch a fire. Catch a fire. They're doing a tour through California at the moment. There are another unbelievable band live. Their live performance and sound is bigger than their their studio albums. I think they actually New Zealand band. You get a chance to see them. They often play in Santa Barbara. I forget the venue names, like a 500 capacity venue in Santa Barbara. They always play there. Devon Howard: Is that the ball? I'm not sure. Michael Frampton: Can't remember. Devon Howard: Anyway, a lot of venues there, but yeah. Michael Frampton: Style. Let's talk about style. Do you? Yeah. What would what do you know the origin of the word. Devon Howard: Um, I don't, but I'd imagine. Uh. Well, I hope you did some research on it. Is it, um, the Latin word is it is it is it Greek? Is it? Where does it come from? Michael Frampton: Let me sort of summarize from etymology online from the early 14th century started out as a writing instrument, pen or stylus, uh, a piece of a piece of written discourse or narrative, uh, characteristic. Characteristic, uh, rhetorical mode of an author, a manner or mode of expression. Uh, a way of life behavior. Uh, then the word sort of transformed, uh, the evolution of the word uh, from writing tool went into writing into manner of writing, into mode of expression, uh, in writing of a particular writer, writer or author. Um, and then it was in the 1500s. It was paired with the word substance, um, which basically meant back then, divine part of essence, sorry, divine part or essence, uh, and that, sort of, that sort of gave the word, uh, a deeper meaning, including finer parents or dashing character. Um, then it was the word then went into an artist's particular mode or form of skilled presentation that was later extended into athletics. Um, then by the 1800s it was distinctive or characteristic mode of dress. Obviously it was more in regards to fashion. Um, and so there's a, there's a little bit of a history of the word. So I think there's a lot of lot of depth to that. And it's certainly, um, it's very, uh, apt for, for surfing. A lot of those meanings, I think. Yes. Had tell me what you think about style and how important it is. Devon Howard: Well, style is um, from my personal experience growing up, it was a, it was a measure of good surfing and, um, it was a marker of, like, one's own presentation of their expression of surfing. Uh, I don't want to cheapen it by, I guess, using the word brand, like your brand of surfing, but, um, everyone has their own form of expression, and style is. Oftentimes I see style as making the difficult look easy and my own belief in, you know, just absorbing what was around me when I was a kid. You know, we're humans. We we sort of mimic and and imitate what's around us. I haven't innovated anything really at all. I've just looked what's around. And you take bits and pieces of first. You take it from your parents, of course. And then as you get out in the world, it's like what's going on around you. And in San Diego, where I grew up. And I think this was the same in many other served cities in not only the US but the world. Um, in the 80s, the older surfers, 10 to 20 years or year older than you, where style focused as opposed to this idea of, um, ripping or tearing something apart and in doing it with reckless abandon. Um, that was something that started getting more popular as I was a kid. So I was sort of born into this era where one thing was kind of falling out of favor. Um, and this other form of surfing was gaining popularity. And, uh, sorry, that was kind of a muddled answer, but it's it's I think it's one of the most difficult subjects in surfing to discuss or to describe because it's so subjective. Um, and it comes with the word style, comes with a lot of different ideas to people ranging from beauty to something that's very contrived and nonfunctional. Michael Frampton: Yeah. I mean, has the word style itself has, as you sort of addressed, has a lot of meanings, like everyone has their own unique style, you could say, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are stylish. So when we think of when we think of stylish surfers, we do. We think of beauty and grace and flow. Um, so and I think it is related to, to that and it's related to efficiency, right? I mean, Rob Machado comes to mind. I think he's sort of an incredibly stylish surfer, but he's also fits in that modern category. Category of radical. Yeah, he encompasses both. And I mean, world champ Joel Parkinson obviously fit the criteria of of competition surfing but remained incredibly smooth and stylish. Devon Howard: Yeah. Well, um, you know, I think depending who where you grew up and what culture you came from or grew up in, um, style could also just not be that important. You know, if, if surfing to to you or just to any individual is about, um, really pushing as hard as they can with maneuvers and being as radical as they can and, you know, tearing apart a wave of, you know, like you think of the Brazilian storm. Guys there for years have been, you know, they're well deserved. They're incredible athletes. They are highly athletic. And it is explosive maneuvers. And they're acrobats in many ways. Um, for some reason, as that game has gained popularity, some aspects of the presentation and sort of fall into the wayside where, uh, in gymnastics, um, presentation and form is still really part of the whole thing was never really let like if you do a floor routine in gymnastics, um, or let's say dance or anything like that, they're doing really kind of athletic, powerful moves, but they also keep the form and I don't know quite the exact reason, but, uh, that sort of started falling out of favor in surfing, mostly because what drives our conversations oftentimes revolves around competition. Surfing, um, like competition surfing drives a lot of the media narratives, um, let's say, who are like, where do we get our information from? It's driven by the cell to, to whatever extent that is, stab in their audience. Devon Howard: Um, surf line kind of, sort of. But they're more focused on cameras and whatnot. And then the most of the magazines have gone out of business. But only ten years ago, a lot of the stories were driven by the the personalities and the folks that competed. And there was a mixed bag in there of surfers that had great style, like Joel Parkinson. He mentioned, um, I would say Kelly Slater has a good style. It's a different style. It's his own. Um, and then on the opposite end of that would be like an Adriano de Souza or somebody like that, where he's clearly just incredibly talented, but sort of putting his surfing together and like one seamless, fluid motion was not a focus of his. And so, um, it's been interesting to watch and the broader conversations of the mainstream, how that sort of played out, uh, in back to where I grew up. I grew up on the fringe of all that. Anyways, so I was riding longboards in the 80s and 90s that was as fringe as it got. And in that world, all through that time, um, style was still important, even when folks were trying to emulate Shortboard maneuvers on longboards, there was still an emphasis of style. Um, sorry. I'll shut up. I don't know where I'm going with that, but yeah. Michael Frampton: So I'm just wondering when you look at, I mean, I think that you mentioned the Brazilian storm. I think Gabriel Medina is quite stylish. Not all the time, but probably actually more so when you see him. Freeserve he sort of. He just seems to be more relaxed when he's not surfing in a competition. And I think that's maybe what separates the I think that's a big part of being stylish is you're very calm and you're relaxed. That doesn't necessarily mean you're going slower or that you're even putting less effort in. It's just maybe you referenced gymnastics. I think a gymnast could do the same routine. They get the same height, the same amount of power. But if one of their runs, they were purposely trying to keep the presentation of themselves relaxed and calm, it would be more visually appealing. Sort of making it look, look easy. Devon Howard: Yeah. That's the that's the thing. Making it difficult look easy. Mhm. In the 60s or 50s or whatever the boards weren't very maneuverable. So um clearly the market did. Surfing was just people who were stylish and could kind of keep it together. Um, hang on one second. Um, are you hearing a beeping on your end? What? I'm getting messages. Yeah. Michael Frampton: Is that your phone? Devon Howard: Yeah. I don't know how to turn off the iMessage on my, uh. Oh, it's on the computer. I'm trying to see how to undo this. Is this on. Michael Frampton: Your phone, a phone or your laptop or your iPad? Devon Howard: It's on my laptop. Oh, sorry. You're going to have to edit this out. That's all right. I'm just getting, like, every one of them. Don't fuck me up. The client. Claudia, um, do you have any idea how to get rid of iMessage off here? Preferences services? Michael Frampton: That's a good question. I don't I don't have my, um, I don't have my laptop linked to my phone, so. Yeah. Devon Howard: Don't do it. References. Let's say. Michael Frampton: I'd say I'd be under notifications, notifications and focus is like a bell symbol. Devon Howard: On, uh, on the computer itself or on the phone. Michael Frampton: I'm looking on my laptop. Devon Howard: Where did you find the notifications in System Preferences? Michael Frampton: Okay. Devon Howard: System preferences notifications. There they are. Look at that. Michael Frampton: And top top right there's a there's a button. Allow notifications so you can turn that off or on I'd say that's it. Devon Howard: Only five messages? There we go. Okay, I want to turn that off. Okay. Apologies for that. Okay. So, um. All right. Michael Frampton: So where were we? Let me throw out some some adjectives that I wrote down after thinking about style a little bit. Um, efficient. Graceful. Functional. Calm. Focused. Relaxed. Grounded. Present. Fearless. Or maybe, better put, courageous. Is there anything you would add to that or you think shouldn't be there? Devon Howard: Uh, no. I just think it's more about a calm and a gracefulness. It's mostly what it is. And it's just a it's just the form of your personal expression. I think a lot of the style, you'll see style of folks from a distance, and a lot of ways it matches up to their personality. Right? You'll see someone who's quite busy, a lot of a lot of kinetic, sort of frantic, uh, motions and, and not always the case, but sometimes, like, okay, this person's a little overcaffeinated in general, you know, they're really mellow, kind of quiet. People have this very quiet. Always meet a really quiet surfer with their style, and they're really loud and and obnoxious. There's exceptions to the rule, but if you think about it quickly, there's not often the case. And so, um, I think a lot of those adjectives actually work pretty well. Um, I don't what did you say? Courageous. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Devon Howard: I don't really know that that applies to it. Really. I don't think it's really much to do with courage other than. Well, I was. Michael Frampton: Thinking that I was just wondering if that was a better word than fearless. Devon Howard: Mhm. Michael Frampton: Because if you, if you look, if you look scared, that's not very stylish is it. Devon Howard: No, no it's very your tent style. And yeah I've said to people I don't do surf coaching, but if I've ever seen someone in the water and looks like they're struggling, if it's appropriate or sort of convenient, like they're just sort of right there. I'll say, do you do you mind if I offer some advice? It's usually well received. Um, a lot of times I've said, I think you just relax a little bit. Your body's too tense. Looks bad, but it also screws up the your ability to surf because now it's affected the form. Like you're sort of hunched over and bracing for, like, some sort of impact where you need to be more relaxed. The arms need to be relaxed, the shoulders should be relaxed. Surely you should be able to sort of slink back and into your knees and your hips and let those kind of bend and sort of sit into the board nicely. And so I think, um, what I, what I often think about style, there's always like there's two camps as the people that get it and, and style is usually it's like you know it when you see it. I said, how do you know that something's pornographic versus art or beauty? And the a lot of times the answer is, well, you know, when you see it, you know, something is gross or smut as opposed to art. Devon Howard: Like you go into an art gallery and there's naked, you know, images of a naked person. How is that not pornography? And it's like, well, you know, when you see it and it's like, style. You sort of know it when you see it, and then you have, um, the other end of that where people will feel style is just posing and looking cool, like you're putting your hands in the air to, to look like Alex Knost or Mickey Dora or Rob Machado, whoever the insert the surfer, you're trying to mimic their hand placement, and sometimes the hand placement provides no real function or value to the to the ride. Other than it. It might feel good, I guess, but it's not making you surf better. Um, where I like to, I often will. I will argue or believe that yes, there are people that pose and that does exist, I exist, grant you that. But good style also brings about, um, really good form. Or I would look at it a different way. Really good form pulls along the style into it. So if you have good form and whether that's in a barrel or a cutback, if your body is doing sort of the right things to make a beautiful, seamless ride easier. Devon Howard: Um, along with that usually comes a pretty good style if you don't have a good style. A lot of times the form is really working against your surfing. So for example, you got to do a cutback in your arm is up and back, um, front side. And let's say I'm turning this way. Front side cut back. Well, if my back arm is in the air waving behind me, I'm really struggling to get my body around and I'm actually having to work really hard for could potentially even injure yourself. Um, so that really hinders your surfing. But if I brought the arm in and drop it down and then have the arm kind of point toward where I want to go, the rest of my body goes. And it's actually quite easy to do the turn and consequently it looks much better. Doesn't look so awkward. Yeah. And and this could be said of your front arm. I've seen folks do cut backs with. I don't know why this happens, but sometimes their front arm is is sort of flailing and going behind them over here. Or they're extending and reaching too far. Um, so when there's this nice balance of the front and the back hand on the front side, cut back looks cool. Hey, that's great. If someone took a photo. Yeah, you probably put on the wall. Devon Howard: Looks pretty good. Looks like Michael Peterson or somebody or whatever. Joel Parkinson Ethan Ewing would be a really good contemporary example, I guess. And, um, but when it's all sort of like the form is there, it looks good, but now you're surfing better and the turn is faster and more complete. And also when you have nice form, you get the board in trim. What I mean by that is when when the boards in trim, it's sort of if you know anything about sailing, when everything's in alignment with the bow and the sail and the the boat is really hitting its top speed, there's nothing really hindering or dragging or fighting against um, that top trim speed. In surfing, you want to get to the top trim speed, because when you have speed, it's easier to complete maneuvers, it's less work. You go into the maneuvers with speed, you can do a lot better. It's like snowboarding. If anyone snowboarded you know that the first few days you're learning, the instructor will say, you just need to get going faster. You know what? We know that's scary. I don't want to go faster, but. Well, you're going so slow that that's why you're tumbling and you're catching an edge and you're getting stuck on the hill. Go faster. And then you see this light bulb moment with people like, my gosh, well, I should have just been going faster all along. Devon Howard: It's the same with surfing. You'll see people struggling to get trim speed because their form is so terrible. They're not understanding that the board is not even in trend. The board then noses out or they're waving their arms. They're there. They're there shaking their body like this, and they're trying to wiggle and do stuff. And you're watching the board underneath. And the board is just like on a gimbal, just like not getting any trim. It's just stop and go, stop and go. So it's this utter fail where if the person just relaxed a little bit, relax their arms, don't try to flop the body around and just get the idea of even going straight, which is hard to do on a chalkboard. Clearly, if you're a beginner, you probably shouldn't even be on the floor. Um, it's just going to be a struggle. Yet a board that's medium like a mid length or something, or a long board where you can kind of stand there and glide and trim, and then you can kind of get that form where your body is body's relaxed. And um, so a lot of times good style, I believe just comes with the right form, if that makes sense. Michael Frampton: I totally agree. Yeah. And that's what I think. That's what a surf coach, the surf coach's job is. And then it's once, once the person becomes at first the new, the better form will feel strange and maybe even, um, abnormal and uncomfortable. And it's only once that form becomes, uh, ingrained and you become comfortable with it, then it looks stylish. So it's it's maybe it's a precursor to style. Is is good form. Devon Howard: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Um, another thing that I've thought about a lot in the last several years about style is, um, it, it sort of belies the, the technique or the difficulty of the maneuver. I think if it looks like someone's trying really super hard to do like a, let's say, a crazy air or just like the craziest turn where like, they blow, they like, blow the tail out and spin the board around and like, oh, whoa, that was insane. That was so difficult. But if you see somebody do a top speed cut back and they don't lose or drift the fins and they just go and mock 20 and just bam, come up fluid and seamless. You might say, man, that was really smooth. That was really stylish. But you don't often think that that was also really difficult. It's interesting. And, um, I'm not trying to get people to cheer more for the stylist, I guess, but I think it's worth sort of acknowledging that Mikey February or Torin Martin and some of those things they're doing, um, we're drawn to them because they're beautiful, which is undeniable. Um, but it's also interesting to think that these are the highest level people at the very upper echelon, at the top peak of, uh, you know, ability of sphere fame. And it something to be learned there, like to not just only acknowledge and only see the style which is great. Devon Howard: I love that I'll watch that stuff all day long, but to like hit the rewind button and look at what they're doing and how on rail that board is and how difficult it is to hold the line and not lose it. Because a lot of times, especially in performance, short boarding it, it's incredible what the surfers do. It's like it's a controlled failure of the surfing. So a lot of times when the fins release, it's a and I know this because I put a lot of thought into fins and foils and whatnot. A lot of the best high performance surfing maneuvers are, um, a controlled failure. Mhm. Um, they're pushing the limits of the board, and a lot of times the fins or the equipment can't really handle what these surfers are giving it. It's really interesting. Look at look at someone laying into a turn and their butt is sliding across the wave and the fins and the board and everything's sliding. Um, and then look at, like a mick Fanning or somebody who can hold that or Ethan Ewing and hold it all the way through. That's gnarly. That is just like peak form. But you're like, man, that was so smooth, but you're not ever saying that was so difficult to do. And I don't know what the point is I'm making. Devon Howard: I guess it comes back to, uh, like the kind of surfing I like to do. It's could be easily scoffed at as pretty easy, like, hey, mid-length surfing, you're just going straight. It's not really difficult. Um, but I don't know, man. At the highest levels. Like, I think what Torin Martin does, I think what February does if he's on a mid lake or other, you know, there's other surfers out there doing it and I cut a watch. Wow, look at that. 5/6 of the rail of that board is buried. And that's what I do myself. And that's to me that's the most thrilling thing is to bury that rail. How how far can I push this thing before it fails me? That's just really, really thrilling. You're just on the edge of disaster. You know, when you go on one of those seven foot boards, go to the bottom, slink, you know, and and coil up into the board and push it as hard as you can. Alex Moss does this really good as well. I can go on forever. People do a great job of this and they push all that board through. And then if you don't watch it, you know, if you're not too far forward or too much weight on your front foot, you'll slingshot up the face as this fast, free feeling, like a flying feeling that's highly addictive. Devon Howard: It's something that you just keep my people that are into those types of boards, they just keep chasing it. Um, and then down the line, do the same thing again. Now I'm going to bury a whole lot of rail on the cutback. How hard can I push it? And when I get down to the bottom of the wave, can I just keep going right back to the whitewater? Oh yes, I can. Damn. Just keep going. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Uh, and if you blow that, you're doing the split that's on the board. Now you've got a torn MCL. Um, but you're going full throttle. And that on that type of equipment. Um, the form is important so that you don't botch it because you really could get injured on some of these things. It probably someone who hears has got a laugh and think, this is a joke. Like, you're being really hyperbolic, bro. Come on. It's just a mid length and you're over water. Um, yeah. When you're pushing it really hard, it's it's it's thrilling and it's exciting and it is difficult to do and it's I think it's, um, it's really appealing to a lot of people. Um, and then they, you know, they go and try and do it and say, man, I, I wish I could surf like Rob Machado on this thing. Yeah. Michael Frampton: Well, all the surfers. Devon Howard: Take ten years. Michael Frampton: Yeah, if not longer. I think all the surfers you mention and the way you talk about their surfing is they're. Can they stay connected? You know, that as, as they're going through the, through the turns and in between turns, there's no there's no radical gain or loss of speed. Right. So that where they do the cutback isn't just a change of direction. It's in sync with that part of the wave. So they stay connected to the power source. So there's a certain it's a radical maneuver, but the speed doesn't waver too much, whereas some surfers might jump up to the top and bust the fins, and they might slow right down and then fall back down into the wave and go again. And it looks good in photos and maybe gets judged well in a competition. But it's not necessarily they're not as connected to the wave as other surfers. Devon Howard: Yeah. And again, that's debatable. I'm sure there's other people who will feel opposite of that. And that's great. You know, surfing's subjective. Yeah. And you know, in in just to bring it back a little bit to competition if that's okay. I know lots of people don't care about surf competition, but it is where a lot of the best surfing's happening. It's where the like the high bar is a lot of times um, and in the 60s and 70s style was just sort of, um, it wasn't like there was a style box that was ticked. It was it was sort of like this nice little cozy little wrapping around the surfing that was just a given, you know, so it didn't really need to be discussed. And then in the 80s, when in probably really the late 70s when the twin fin was really coming on with Mr. pushing that and Sean Thompson and other people chasing him. Um, they were packing in as many maneuvers as they possibly could into a ride to take away more points. And and this isn't my own thought or original idea. I've read these things elsewhere, and I agree with his take, which is somewhere along the way. The beauty just sort of eroded because the focus is now like we're getting really fixated on number of maneuvers. And this like real technical aspect of the difficulty of the maneuvers. Devon Howard: And surfing is already highly subjective. And you have this even more subjective thing, style. Um, and some of them may be, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there was a style element at some point. I'm not aware of it, maybe there was. And um, so anyways, the 80s kind of moves on and there were clearly lots of stylish surfers. I mean, I grew up like many people my age, I'm 50, so I worshiped Tom Curren and I loved Tommy Carroll and a bunch of folks. There was lots of style, but there was also some people with some really hideous style, like Gary Elkerton and David and all these people. Nothing against them, man. Like, I think they're all incredible surfers, but there were some hideous styles and they crushed it in contests because they were just animals, like lacerating, tearing it up. And because the broader culture is being driven by whatever media is being consumed. And the media at the time was really sort of swiveling and craning and watching what's going on in competition, because that's like where the money's being plugged in. So those brands like, hey, we validate this thing we're doing, which is competition surfing. Um, and it just boiled down to what do you got to do to win this thing? And if making it look beautiful was not ever important, why would you spend time doing that? Tom Curran couldn't help himself. Devon Howard: He was stylish no matter what. But, um, lots, lots of other surfers weren't, and they did very well. Um, and so as the decade or two ensues, um, just the sort of broad mainstream viewpoint was, that style just wasn't important. However, the people that were in the sort of the underground, your locals, people that sort of stuck to the fringe and even the in people that short boarded as well, obviously still kind of kept style alive and in it. And the reason style always stayed alive is because the idea that human beings are drawn and attracted to beauty is as old as time, I think. I mean, who knows? When that began, I had a really nice chat with David Scales on, um, Surf Splendor, and we spoke about this there. So if you want to hear more about this, go check that out. I think it was a nice conversation, but I'll sort of reiterate some of the points there was. I read an article by Scott Hewlett in The Surfer's Journal, and he wrote quite a bit about style, and he illustrated a point that I'd never considered. And he sort of talking about this Greek artists. It was like 500 BC. I'm like, where is this thing going? Why are we talking about bronze sculptures? Um, but he made a really brilliant point, which is, okay, why does style matter? Why do we keep talking about it? Um, it's because beauty endures. Devon Howard: It is a common theme in human nature. Now, in recent times, I'd say beauty is being abandoned. If you look at modern architecture and just about any town, everything looks like shit. So I don't know what's going on there. We used to make beautiful buildings and now we're stopping doing it. Um, you we can't control that. But in surfing, we keep getting drawn back to this idea of beauty. Despite all those things that happen that we just talked about in the 80s and 90s competition, surfing and getting derailed. The broad culture still is always known instinctively that this is something that should, um, we should never stop cherishing. We should never stop celebrating. Um, and I think it's backed up by if you go to any Torin Martin video, go down to this thing below the screen that says views. A lot of Torin Martin videos have like a million plus views. Um, go over to Gabrielle Medina or anyone, and I'm not picking on these people. Just pick anybody. I'll bet you right now that Torin is is beating a lot of those surfers, 2 or 3 or 4 to 1 in terms of views. Now, you could argue that, well, there's more a lot more Gabriel Medina type surfers and there's not that many tour Martin's, I'll give you that. Devon Howard: But I, I think it's really because we are drawn to beauty. And so back to that Surfers Journal article, which is he he said, imagine taking those Greek statues and putting a surfboard underneath them. And when I was done reading the article, I went and I googled 500 BC Greek statue and I forget the artist's name, its Greek name, and I was instantly like, huh, look at that. You just put a surfboard under these statues. And some of the form and posture was a little bit silly, but a lot of it was pretty spot on. And then you go right over to Jerry Lopez, or you go to Mikey February or somebody else, and you can see that, um, there's a similarity to this idea of beauty. And then you go take it steps further, take it to, uh, any type of traditional dance. Have you ever seen ugly, poor form at any dance scenario where there's, like, serious people, whether it's ballroom or it's swing or it's foxtrot or it's tango or it's salsa, it's just incredibly beautiful. And it's this expression. The music is coming in. You're viewing and watching and feeling the music. There's that input, and the output is what these people are feeling. And so that our output in surfing is, is that form and that expression. Um, bullfighters. Same thing. Michael Frampton: Mhm. Devon Howard: Now the bullfighters have a little more of a pose at the end, the bulls coming in and the bull goes through the cape and they kind of hold it and they sort of like it's almost like a taunting of the bull. Like you didn't kill me. And look how calm I am right here. And a lot of the surfers in the 50s and 60s, they really admired the bullfighters as a great shot of Joey Cobell in Peru in the 60s. Guys never bullfight, but bull fought before, and he's down there and there's pictures of him in the bull ring with a Hawaiian print shirt on and doing the whole full Ole, you know. And so this idea of style really, um, is always going to matter and always be important to us. Um, so long as we don't ever abandon this, um, attraction of ours to beauty, you know, we're attracted to beautiful people. Clearly, that's a given, right? Um, but we're really drawn to beautiful, um, things art, architecture, wonderful garden, uh, an unmolested landscape. And so it I don't think people really care to give too much thought about style. Devon Howard: I think it's just sort of like I said, you know, when you see it, does it really need to be talked about? But I think in the context of a podcast like yours where people are trying to improve their surfing, um, having a real understanding that this isn't just for show style isn't just to look cool. It's not like putting on a cool outfit to look cool. Um, it's a real purpose driven thing. Certain articles of clothing look great, but they also have a purpose. Maybe it has SPF in it, maybe it's, um, built for a particular, um, activity to make it more comfortable. Um, for us, as I was saying in the very beginning, like the form, um, the style sort of follows the form. And if you, if you really think about your form and you're relaxed and you're sort of paying attention to the things that you talk about on your podcast or where people get their information, There's lots of different YouTube things, obviously. Um, you two could have nice style if you so desire. Michael Frampton: Yeah, I 100% agree. Surfing is first and foremost an art form. Mhm. It's only within competition that it becomes a sport. And then yes, sometimes we don't necessarily we sacrifice a bit of style for progression perhaps as well as what's happening in windsurfing is a sport. I still think the best of the best, the best of the best can buy. Like John John, he's number one at the moment for a reason. Not just because he's progressive, but because he he would do a progressive turn with calm style like no one else. Yeah, yeah. So I still have faith. I think there'll be the odd slip up. You know, Toledo's frantic aerial maneuver that goes higher than everyone else. The judges kind of. They can't not score it, you know. So, you know, there'll be blips in the system, glitches in the matrix, per se, until until the judges, you know, really start to consider style and and make that a point which hopefully, maybe one day they will. I think it would make, uh, I would make surfing more watchable. Devon Howard: Well, they have done so in longboard surfing. Yes. Longboard surfing has a much smaller audience, obviously. Um, but as I believe you and I talked about in the past, I think we did. I was at the WSL for a few years, and I worked on the longboard tour and built into the criteria is the word style also two other words flow and grace. Um, Style. Flow. Grace is in the criteria and it's hard, a little difficult to train the judges on it, you know? Um, it's highly subjective. It's something we could we could sit here for an hour, breaking down style, flow, grace. It will still feel like we barely scratched the surface. Um, because it's it is highly subjective. Just like art is just like music is just like food is just like, what kind of waves I like? Ah, it's just like that. It's just, um, really can be difficult to put your finger on it. But the way we did the training to help, um, these judges, if anyone cares to know this stuff is, um, have them really focus on somebody making something really difficult look easy, but also at the same time, dealt with sight of the positioning of the wave or the difficulty of the maneuver, because to the untrained eye, you could you could see someone doing a nose ride and maybe they're doing something really what you may think is beautiful on the nose. Devon Howard: Maybe their arms are held a certain way. It just looks kind of like cool. But if you pay close attention, they're like ten feet in front of the pocket and you're like, that's not that hard to do. Mhm. So the so what helps is in the other part of the criteria is um, the degree of difficulty that is part of it. So you have to, you're looking at the style of flow and grace but you're applying it to are these surfers in the pocket. Is the surfer using their rail or are they lifting the board out of the water? Because to lift the longboard out of the water and turn it as far easier than engaging the rail in the water and pushing it through a turn. That's much more difficult. And so it has been applied in longboard surfing. Let's see if we can. If anyone cares, we could try to do a campaign to get the Shortboard tour to break more. Michael Frampton: I'm with you. I'm with you. Ultimately, I do think it shines through and the cream always rises to the top. But it would be nice if it was literally in the criteria, and it was considered by each surfer to be a worthy consideration. Um, coming back to form, let me I'm going to share my screen with you. Let me. Hopefully this works. Oh, shit. Did that work? Can you see my screen? Devon Howard: I think so. Let me move my notes here a little bit. Oops. Too many things around here. I'm terrible at computer stuff, but second. So where it is now? Okay, I can see it now. Michael Frampton: So there's an example of a, you know, if that was placed on the nose of a longboard, it'd be quite cool. Devon Howard: Yeah, it's pretty close. Michael Frampton: But then also so here's you see on the left there is the way that a baby learns to stand now because the infant is so weak, there's only one way that they can learn to roll over and learn to stand up and hold themselves. Because their muscles are so weak, their bones have to be placed so accurately in order for them to be able to stand and move. And that's how we learn because of our our weakness and our slow progression into strength, we learn the most efficient way possible. Now it's the athletes that maintain that neurological efficiency that end up with the best form naturally, i.e. the way Kelly Slater's standing there in those barrels. Not only is he standing in a very similar way to the infant there, he's also very calm and relaxed in that position. Devon Howard: Yeah, I would definitely not be that calm in that way. Those waves. Michael Frampton: Exactly. So it does come back to to form. And it's also when when an athlete is standing with their joints in DNS, we call it joint centration and that the bones are stacked on top on top of each other in a very efficient way. It just looks right. Not only does it look right the way the forces are spread throughout the body, it doesn't feel hard. Anyone who's ever tried, if anyone, has ever tried to skate a vert ramp, for example, half pipe, it feels like, oh man, my legs aren't strong enough. How do people and then you watch a 12 year old just go up and down. They're not doing it because their legs are stronger than yours. They're not even doing it because they're stronger relative to their body weight. They're doing it because they're stacking themselves. Their bones and their joints are centered properly, and the force is being transferred throughout their entire body through the center of the bone and into the skateboard. Whereas someone who doesn't know what they're doing, they're trying to muscle their way through it. They only does it feel terrible. It looks terrible. Yeah. So I agree with that. Yeah. So it does come back to efficiency. And you said no good style is that you know it when you see it. My question to you is, do you know it when you feel it? Devon Howard: Yes. Um, I believe so. Um, I know, um, I've even had moments where I just didn't feel like I was in the right form. It just didn't the the turn didn't feel good or the particular move movement. Maybe it's a nose ride or something. Didn't feel great. And if you get a chance to be lucky enough to come across a video or a photo of that moment, you're like, mm, yeah, that that is actually backs it up. It looks a bit awkward. It looks a bit off. So and you definitely can feel good style because you like it, like it's all tethered to, to itself. Like it's it feels good. It looks good. Um, and it, it's sort of like carries on the ride. It's it's like when you get off the very beginning of the ride and the first bottom turn is successful and your feet are in the right place. It really sets up the rest of the ride. Um, if you botch that, let's say you screw it up getting to your feet or off the bottom. Then you get you. You screw up the pace of the wave. So, um, yeah, I've had times where my feet were too far forward or back or whatever. Um, or I hit a chop and my arms sort of waved a little bit, and then I got out of that rhythm. Um, and that didn't that definitely didn't feel good. And it certainly didn't, because it looked like I was rolling up the windows as opposed to my arms being sort of down and going the direction that I want to be headed. Devon Howard: A lot of times the front end, the back end oftentimes are going the direction you want to go. I find that to be very helpful, and that feels good to me because I feel really centered. I or you'd say stacked. You know, I never thought of it that way, but, um, so yeah, I would agree. I would say you definitely. You definitely feel it. Um, my own belief is I don't I don't do anything in the style that I feel is what's called contrived, where I'm trying to present before of some kind that it has a certain look. The form I have is, is really based off of function, and that's because I watched the generation two ahead of me at a waves like wind and sea and Cardiff Reef, and I watched the elders and what the I really watched closely what they were doing. How they were sinking down into the board. And I noticed that their hands, their fingers were never apart. Their, um, hand gestures were sort of always in the direction of where their board and body was heading. It was like this stacking or centering. He kind of like hunkered down, but they never looked stiff or scared or afraid of anything or timid. It was very, a very confident, almost like a martial artist, like a kung fu person or something that has confidence in the form of that particular move. Devon Howard: Um, the really good surfers, the real standout surfers. I, I identified that pretty young and I said, I want I need to learn how to do that. Um, so it was never a contrived thing, like, I need to look good and look cool. I just knew that that was good surfing. And as a consequence of learning going through that, it also felt really good. It was like a good golf swing. I don't golf at all, but I have friends who do and I can understand like how much work they put into that golf swing. And when they do that, clearly it looks good from a distance because they hit the ball and it goes right where they want it to go. So that's pretty awesome. But they'll tell you it feels good. It's like uh, or baseball. If you've ever played baseball, you know the feeling of a homerun. There's a sound of the bat and the feel through the bat into your hands, and you feel it. The follow through of the swing. You're like, that ball is out of here. It's pretty cool. Um, Mhm. A reward to not that it's work but there's sort of like this payoff and a reward to the dedication that it took to learn that, that art form. Mhm. Michael Frampton: But it always comes back to the feeling. Yeah. Devon Howard: It really does. Yeah I didn't I haven't put too much thought into the feeling piece of it. But um yeah. You know it's disgusting and really dumb and shallow. But I've, I've had moments where the way where the ride did it feel good, and I didn't even finish the wave. I was so not into the feeling. I just kicked out. I was like, I've botched this thing so bad that someone else just needs to finish it. I'm just. I just kick out and I go back up to the top and kind of regroup and go, what? What just went wrong there? And then, you know, like surfing. Everyone surfs for different reasons too. Like for some people, surfing is a couple times a month. It's an escape for them. They don't care if they surf. Well, that's not what they're there for. Michael Frampton: Like they're probably not listening to this, though. Devon Howard: Probably not. Um, and I like I've had people say, man, you look so serious when you're surfing. I'm like, I'm pretty serious about it. Like it? I'm to me, it's so strange. It's serious fun and and it's as I've gotten older, I haven't lost interest in it. It's like a it's like a hunt to me. It's really weird. No, and I don't I don't know if it's just some human thing of like the game and the chess moves and the everything involved with observing patterns. I've observed patterns for decades, and now I see the patterns, and the benefit for me is I know which wave to pick. I know where to beat. And by knowing that I've set up the ride and therefore I've sort of like predetermined this feeling that I'm after, which is, as I said, it's highly addicting. Surfing like you, you never satiated. Why is that? You always want another one. You always want more. Um. And but all through this process, the hunt, the enjoying, understanding the patterns, the chasing, the moment, the feeling. Um, there's a there's a tremendous sense of there's like a reward when all the elements have come together and you apply everything you've learned. It's a really cool feeling. I think you could say that about a lot of things in life, whatever your or your craft is. Devon Howard: And for me, surfing isn't just like some waste of time thing, like that's part of it. That's a bonus to me. Like, hey, I'm not doing chores or I'm not at work. That's fantastic. I will take that. But it's also like a craft. It's like a, it's a, it's it's a way I express myself. Some people do that through building things out of wood in their garage or a number of other things. Um, so the style piece of it, it's just sort of come along with it. It never was like, I'm going to really think about this super duper hard. Um, and you just, you learn through time that they the style and the and the form, they sort of, like, are tied together, you know, and you kind of look at it this way, and then you go back and look at it the other way, and they really come together nicely. And if you fight them, you're surfing. You're not going to surf as well. If you're not surfing as well, you're not going to feel it as right. You won't feel that thing we just talked about. Um, and then consequently, not that not that that many people care, but you're surfing is going to be kind of ugly. Michael Frampton: Thing is. Michael Frampton: It'll. Michael Frampton: Because when you are, when you're connected and you're efficient, it feels better. Simple as that. It feels better if you if you close your eyes and just imagine, like an image or a video section of someone who epitomizes style, are they? What are they feeling in the moment? Are they worried about what they look like? No, no. Are they are they are they scared? No. Are they putting in a ton of effort? Devon Howard: I would say no. Michael Frampton: It's in the. Devon Howard: Moment. Yeah. There's probably a small number of people who. It's contrived, like you could go to Byron Bay. Sorry. Sorry. Byron Bay. They pick on you right now. You could go to Malibu. Um, pick your spot. Ah, maybe Montego Bay. I don't know, uh, way inside there. There's going to be places where there are folks that, for whatever reason, this. Well, like, who cares? There's no, like, laws or rules. Like, I'm not mad about this. It's just they're just observations. That's it. They're really controlled. It's just so contrived. They're sort of putting the form or I'm sorry, let me back up. They're putting the presentation ahead of the form. You know, they're worried about all the bells and whistles and the dressing, but, like, at the core of all the ingredients going into making this beautiful thing, they've got it all wrong, you know? And so, um, you. Michael Frampton: Can always smell that though, I think. Devon Howard: And it's a missed opportunity for them. Uh, does it change my life or your life or anybody listening? You do. You, man. Like, I'm very libertarian in that way. I don't really care. But, um, we're on a podcast called Surf Mastery, so we're we're we're nerding out. And if you're here to get better, don't get caught up in the presentation. Get caught up in the form. The presentation is going to come along. And yeah, it's just like this beautiful byproduct. You don't have to really. You shouldn't have to try to have good style. You should you should try to be good at surfing. And then once you have that confidence, you know, if you see a photo or catch a surf line, rewind. If you can see that far and you happen to notice that your your hands are bent at the wrist and going in instead of out, or you happen to notice that your fingers are wide apart, you could pull them in and it looks better, but it also centers and stacks you. You start feeling more stacked over your board, and once you start doing that, it starts improving. Your style just starts improving. And, um, it's interesting that tube riding, this is what we talked about with David the other day, I think. Or maybe we didn't, I can't remember, but he someone I was talking to you about. It's interesting that almost all good tube writing has good style. Most of it you You rarely see someone with really hideous style getting as sick barrel. Yeah. Michael Frampton: So yeah, because the, the, the the wave will hit them in the butt with their post dance. They just don't they don't fit in their ugly. Devon Howard: Yeah I think it's true. He's a lesson there that can be applied to other maneuvers like but but it's not always true. That good tube style now equates to this beautiful style of the face. You'll see what doesn't fall apart. Um. Why is that? I don't know exactly. Maybe the. I think one thing that could help with style, um, from a technique standpoint, is, um, don't rush your surfing. I've noticed, like, folks that, remember we were talking earlier about breaking trim, um, and seeing people that are trying to wiggle. They're sort of swaying. A lot of times it's the upper body that's swaying when that's not really helping them in any way. It's not benefiting the the ride. It's causing the board to lift out of the water and side to side motion, typically. And now you're breaking the trip. Now in a short board. A short board needs to be side to side, but it's also got to be pushed so that it's it's building momentum in a forward fashion. The people that are not very good are kind of not going anywhere, because they don't understand that. They're just sort of wiggling their arms and breaking the trim. Devon Howard: Um, and I think if you just. Yeah, just like think about being a little bit more quiet, um, and, and being a little bit more quiet means you're not in a big hurry like you don't if you're not at a level where you need to try to get eight maneuvers in the wave, don't do it. Take take your time and get the two really nice maneuvers and those will feel really good. Be patient off the bottom when you're. Let's start from the beginning. You go and you paddle in. You go to do a bottom turn. Just be there in that moment with that bottom turn. Don't be thinking about the four moves you want to do down the line, because now it becomes this rut here. You're hurrying up the surfing, and now you're kind of like screwing up the pace of the ride. You're screwing up the pace of the wave. And when you do that, now you're out of sync. When you're out of sync, it doesn't feel or look good. So I think the best advice to like, how do I get good stop, start with the foreign and don't rush your surfing. Devon Howard: Don't try to contrive it. Don't try to Like I'm gonna have. Make sure my hands are up here and I'll go like this. And I'm looking backwards and going, okay, that's go. You do you. But you know, that's not helping you surf better. Michael Frampton: Yeah, yeah. You can you can be quick without being rushed. Devon Howard: Exactly. Michael Frampton: Like like a drummer that's drumming at 160 beats per minute. If they're ahead of the beat slightly. It sounds rushed, but if they're on the beat, it's in time. It's rhythm and they're nice and relaxed. They're still fast. They're just not rushed, utterly. And it's interesting you mentioned, like the hands curled and like this. If your hands are curled in like this, you will feel scared. Your physiology affects your emotions. That's a scared posture. That's a protective posture. So if you forcefully open up your hands, like Tony Robbins says, stand up tall and and straight and relaxed, you will feel better. But if you force yourself to smile, you will feel better inside. So I think that, you know, a bit of video analysis and analyzing your own style can actually and changing it can actually make surfing feel better as well. But, um, I love those tips. You just, um, said and it was a good summary and it's a great place to end. Devin, thank you so much. Devon Howard: All right. I hope we, uh, made some sense there. It's fun to talk about it, because I've felt this stuff for a long time, but I don't really ever talk about it. And it's only just in recent times. And, um, I gotta thank Scott Hulett from The Surfer's Journal for getting the gears going in my mind of how to think about this stuff. Um, it's fun to share it, so I hope people get some value out of this conversation. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. I mean, we can if you come up with more thoughts on it, let me know. We get you back on and we'll expand because it's an important topic. Devon Howard: Well, we're, um, we're in the middle of some fin placement on a mid lane, so I got to get back down there. So I also got this, um, dust down here. Michael Frampton: All right. Thanks, Devin. I'll let you write. You get back to it. Devon Howard: All right. Thank you. Michael. See you. Devon Howard On Surf Mastery Podcast Devon Howard On Surf Mastery Podcast…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
98 Matt Parker - Choosing Boards and Breaking Surfing Rules

34 weeks yang lalu

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Welcome to the Surf Mastery Podcast, where we delve into the fascinating intersections of life, sports, and the art of mastering the surf. In this episode, our host Michael John Frampton sits down with Matt Parker from Album Surf to discuss the intricacies of surfboard shaping, the evolution of surf culture, and the joys of riding different types of boards. Matt Parker is a seasoned surfer and shaper from Southern California who started crafting surfboards in his garage in 2001. Now, Album Surf is one of the largest surfboard companies, known for its diverse range of high-quality boards. Matt’s philosophy on surfboard design emphasizes the harmonious blend of curves and how they interact with the water, aiming to make every board feel like an extension of the surfer’s feet and mind. Episode Highlights: The Origins of Album Surf: Matt shares how he started shaping surfboards in his garage in 2001 and grew Album Surf into a renowned company. Philosophy of Surfboard Design: Discussing his unique approach to shaping, Matt explains the importance of creating boards that blend seamlessly with the water. Surfing in Southern California vs. New Zealand: A comparison of surf conditions and the surfing culture in these two iconic locations. The Evolution of Surfboard Variety: Exploring the trend of surfers, including professionals, moving away from high-performance shortboards to experimenting with various types of boards. Educational Insights: Michael and Matt discuss the importance of riding different boards to improve surfing skills and the misconceptions many surfers have about the type of board they should use. Personal Anecdotes and Experiences: Matt and Michael share personal stories about their favorite boards and memorable surfing experiences. Key Quotes: "The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet and your mind." - Matt Parker "Are you actually having fun? That’s what it should be about, not just projecting competency and coolness in the lineup." - Matt Parker "It's the best time to be alive as a surfer because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past." - Matt Parker Follow Matt Parker: Instagram: @albumsurf Linkedin: matt-parker-7877a17 Website: albumsurf.com Don’t forget to visit our new website for a free PDF download outlining Michael’s top five insights from the show, and reach out if you know anyone at YouTube to help resolve access issues! Enjoy the episode and happy surfing! Full Show Transcript: Matt Parker- Welcome back to the Surf Mastery podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton. Today's guest is Matt Parker from album serf. But before we get into that, a couple of housekeeping items. Firstly, Serf Mastery has a new website, and included on that on the front page is a free PDF download outlining my top five insights from the show and the last eight years or so of focusing on improving my own surfing. Um, so go ahead and download that puppy. Also, does anyone know anyone on YouTube? I have been denied access to my YouTube account and have exhausted all other avenues and have had a dead end. So if anyone knows anyone at YouTube, please reach out. Mike at Serf mastery.com or you can DM me on Instagram as well. Onto the show. Today's guest, like I said, is Matt Parker from album surf. Matt is a surfer from Southern California, and he started shaping surfboards from his garage back in 2001. And now album surf is one of the largest, uh, surfboard companies around. Uh, they specialize in all types of boards. And let me read a little quote from Matt's website, which sort of summarizes the way he thinks about surfboards. This is a quote from Matt. The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet. And your mind is so interesting. There shouldn't be any rules about what a surfboard looks like. I love that quote and you would have seen there's so many pros that when they aren't surfing on tour, they end up on these boards, including one of my favorite surfers of all time, Margo. Yes, one of the best free surfers around. Brendan Marginson is well worth a follow on Instagram as well. He started writing Matt's boards. Anyway, without further ado, I shall fade in my conversation with Matt Parker from album surf. Com two. Matt Parker- How are things? Uh, how are things in New Zealand? Michael Frampton - Are things going swimmingly? Matt Parker- Always there. So you live in the prettiest place on Earth. How could it not? Michael Frampton - Oh, yeah. You're not wrong. Although I have to admit, I do miss California. Matt Parker- Did you have spent time out here before you lived here or just. Michael Frampton - Yeah, I lived in, uh, I lived in Point Dume Malibu for four years. Oh, cool. So I was obviously in a little bit of a bubble surfing Little doom every day, but, uh, you know, the weather, the weather alone in Southern California, I kind of felt like it was a bit monotonous. After four years there, I almost missed winter. But having come back to New Zealand and actually experiencing the four seasons, I take California any day. Matt Parker - Yeah, it's big news. When it rains here. It's like, yeah. Michael Frampton - Yeah, no one can drive in the rain in California. Matt Parke r- No. Definitely not, definitely not. Michael Frampton - And then, of course you can't. Well, you're not supposed to go in the water either. Matt Parker - Uh, so. So whereabouts in New Zealand? What part are you at? Like, where do you surf at and all that? Michael Frampton - I'm in a place called Hawkes Bay, which is on the east coast of the North Island. There's nowhere really famous surf wise around here. The surf is pretty average around here, actually. We have a mass. Uh, continental shelf. So the swell comes in with a, uh, just with almost no energy left in it unless it's a certain period that seems to sneak through. Um, so, yeah, around here is not so good for surfing, to be honest. I came back here to, you know, raise the kids and I think, yeah, that sort of thing. Matt Parker - But there's pretty drivable though, right? I mean, you can get. Oh yeah. Michael Frampton - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you know if you're willing to drive um then yeah you can get waves, probably get good waves almost every day. Uh, in New Zealand actually, if you're willing to drive and put up with a little bit of weather. Matt Parker - Mhm. Not afraid of a little wind. Right. Find the blowing the right way. Yeah. Michael Frampton - Exactly. Well that's another big thing is I remember in Southern California so many days there's just no wind. Matt Parker - Yeah. Michael Frampton - Where you don't really get that in New Zealand maybe the first two hours of the day there's not much wind, but you'd never get a day where it's glassy until midday, like in Southern California. That's rare here. Matt Parker - Yeah. That's like the prototypical dreamy Southern California fall day where it's kind of glass a little bit offshore in the morning and kind of glassy and nice and sunny and warm all day with fun combo swells. That's kind of the ideal. It's like that a lot. I'm down in San Clemente. It's pretty clean down here, too. We live like a little valley, kind of, uh, that kind of keeps the wind cleaner here. I don't know if it's just protected a little bit from some of the, you know, more beach break spots up in Huntington and Newport, all those spots. But, um. Michael Frampton - Yeah. No, I, I've spent a little bit of time down your way as well. The Surf lowered and I got to interview Archie on my way down there and I spent some time, um, I love surfing Swami's and just that whole Encinitas area. Spent some time down there? Matt Parke r- Yeah. Michael Frampton - And, uh, what opened? Part of what I wanted to talk about today was, obviously surfboards. But I remember we interviewed Devon Howard, and so I got to surf with Devon and I was surfing this like it was a Stu Jensen 94. And I would just paddle. I would just paddle right out the back as far as you can at Little Doom and surf it like Sarno, almost just catch the swell and just get long, big sweeping rides. And Devon's like, you should just be on a glider. And I was like, what's a glider? And then so I just, I just went out and bought an 11 foot Josh Hall, and that's pretty much all I surf all of the time. Matt Parker - Even further out. You weren't even like another hundred yards out would catch it even out the back. Yeah. It's amazing. Michael Frampton - Yeah. And then I'm always swapping around boards. But that 11 foot board just taught me so much about surfing. Just the sheer volume and weight and size of the board. Just you have to think about reading the waves so differently and about you know, your the space around you with other people so differently. And then when you finally do jump back on a board, a short board or whatever, I found it so much easier and more fun and easier to sort of be present after having learnt how to surf such a big surfboard. Yo. Have you experienced anything similar with playing around with lots of different boards? Matt Parker - Yeah, I, um, I, obviously I make boards and so I'm always writing something different. You know, most of the time it's rare that I ride the same board two days in a row. Um, and so I'm very used to, like the initial paddle out where, um, I, I can't try too hard, you know what I mean? I kind of have to just. Feel what the board is going to do and just kind of be open to what it feels like once I'm dropping in and just kind of riding the wave. And so it makes me, um, yeah, it's just a good little lesson every time because you can't, you can't force it. And so, uh, you remain a little bit relaxed and not try to do too much, and then you kind of feel it out in every wave is kind of like a you're learning a little bit more about what the board wants to do and what line it wants to take, and trying to figure out where the gas pedal is. And, and, uh, so that's like the discovery part of surfing for me because I surf, I tend to surf the same place every day. And it's a point break down near, uh, lowers and it's kind of a similar wave, but it's kind of a sectional point break that offers some variety. But it's the same place. You know, I'm surfing in the same spot all the time. And so the variety of boards, um, just kind of changes up. Um, it kind of removes expectations sometimes. I think sometimes if you have a board, you've written a ton and you're kind of like, oh, this is the kind of surfing I want to go do. And these are the, you know, these are the turns I'm going to do or whatever. And when you're surfing a little bit more blind to what the board is going to allow you to do, it just kind of, um, keeps you from having expectations. And then you're kind of, uh, you just find fun in different ways and new experiences every time you surf. Michael Frampton - So I think that really good top level surfers are doing that on a much more refined and accurate level because they're always so close to where the wave is breaking. There's so much in the source and they're feeling all those little bumps and nooks and obviously those sorts of boards at that speed are ridiculously sensitive. So if they're not tuned in to that, it's just not going to happen. Whereas you and I are surfing bigger boards a little further away from the power source, we kind of can get away with not being tuned in, but when we do, they're aware. Matt Parker - Yeah, their awareness level is so next level, so high. I like the little nuances and they can feel a lot of they can and can't always communicate verbally, but they definitely know what they're feeling and experiencing in a different way than most regular people. Michael Frampton - Yeah. You know, what I found that's really [00:10:00] interesting is, all of the pros, well, not all of them. A lot of the pros, when you see them out free surfing or when they take a break off tour, then they're not riding high performance shortboards. You know, Josh Kerr is a great example. Um, you know, even Steph Gilmore and Kelly Slater with fire waves just riding different boards as soon as there's not a camera and a judge looking at them, they're like, I'm on this board. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go down to the local beach and it's waist high and onshore and it's 11 seconds and there's people out there on toothpicks pumping and getting angry. But the pro even the pros when they're surfing good waves, they're not on those high performance short boards. Are you seeing a similar trend overall in Southern California? Matt Parker - Uh, yeah. I mean, well, specifically with everybody that all the, all the guys and gals I make boards for. But no, no one that rides for us really does contest surfing. Most everyone is just kind of free surfing. And so they're definitely on the track of surfing, whatever feels good and experiencing a lot of different things. But yeah, Josh is a perfect example. I don't think he's touched a thruster since his last heat up pipe, honestly, when he retired and that was probably five years ago or something like that. Even in good waves and every kind of wave, whether he's in Indo or wherever it is, he's always writing something different. And uh, I think obviously like high performance shortboards surf. Amazing. We all love to watch surfing. We love watching contests and, you know, the sport of it all. It's always exciting and entertaining and all that. But I think that type of board, um, directs you to one type of surfing. There's, you know, like everyone's trying to kind of surf the ideal way that that board kind of pushes you to. And the judging and the contest structure is kind of, um, positioned around that ideal as well. So I think, um, when you remove that, that box that you're trying to operate in and you don't have to do the same turns and all that, you know, you're just freed up to do whatever you want to do. That's always going to be a more fun option. And for me personally, I am someone who makes boards, it's true. That's my favorite thing, is to see, uh, people that can surf at a world class level, see them surf a lot of different boards and see the different places those boards can go when it's put under the feet of very, very talented people. Because, um, because for the most part, you know, the most, most of the surf media, the most surf contests, you see these very high level surfers riding very similar type of equipment. So. Michael Frampton - Um, yeah, I've always had this analogy in terms of car racing, whereas the pros in a contest, they're in a finely tuned formula one that's customized for their style. Right. And then for some reason, we want to go race around the local racetrack, and we think we need to be in one of those cars. And yeah, sure, that when the average driver is in a high performance car, yes, you can drive it around the track, but man, it's going to be bumpy. It's going to be shaking if you're not constantly turning the car. It's just not going to be as fun as getting in a V8 supercar that's nowhere near as fast or fine tuned, but is a little more. It's got a little more given it still goes fast. So that's what I'm wondering. You see these pros, when they're surfing outside of the contest, they don't necessarily want to be in a finely tuned formula one. They just want to be in a V8 supercar and just have a little less pressure and a little more give. How does that analogy stack up for you? The car racing one? Matt Parker - Well, I like to me surfing really is about the feeling, right? And like the tactile feeling of driving a car that's fast and that wants to go and that you're feeling it. And there's a little bit of like, uh, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to crash right away, you know, like a regular driver. If they went behind the F1 car, they're probably going to crash pretty quick because they just can't handle it. Right. It's too technical to drive all that kind of stuff. So you get into something that has a better feel. But it is about the feeling. And you know, ultimately that's what we're chasing every time we surf. That's why we want to get another wave, is because you want to get that feeling again. And uh, and so the same with the pros that can surf at the highest level. You know, they're chasing the feeling the contest is like the job side of it. You know, it's ticking the box I feel in to win and do all that. But if they're freed from that, they're chasing the feeling of going fast and finding a tube and not having to fit in as many turns as they as they need to just to get the score, but to actually do the turn where the wave is, allowing them to or not, or just ride the wave. Michael Frampton - So that makes sense. Well, yeah, because I'm always dumbfounded when you see so many surfers spending so much time and money on taking these high performances. You know, they watch stab in the dark and they want to buy the latest version of the ten short boards that they already own. It really doesn't make much sense to me. And I think things are changing, but there certainly is still a large percentage of surfers that fit in that category. Uh, do you think it's trending the other way with companies like yourself and even, you know, Channel Islands are broadening their range of boards? Um, I. Matt Parker - Think it's for me, it definitely is the best time to be alive, to be a surfer, because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past, and you really can ride anything. When I was when I was young, as a teenager in the 90s, surfing, it really was you. Everyone kind of had the same board. I rode the same board, no matter the conditions. It was like a six, three, 18.5, two and a quarter rockered out shortboard no matter what. If it was one foot, if it was six foot, whatever. So nowadays you really do like I think everyone's kind of experienced like, oh yeah, I can have a little bit more of a diverse quiver and it's okay if I'm riding a fish one day or I'm riding like a little stretched out worm another day, or if I'm riding a shortboard one day or whatever, it's like there's a little bit more, um, versatility and variety and, um, so it's a it's a great time to be alive, to be a surfer in that way. I think, um, uh, I just think that, yeah, there's just less rules, less rules about it, more enjoyment. Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. I guess the question is, the impetus of the show is education and inspiration for better surfing, really. And I guess when I take on a client myself personally, um, one of the first things I say to them is like, why do you want to? Why are you on that board? Like, this isn't you're not surfing double overhead barrels. Like that's what their board's made for. Like just try. Matt Parker - Yeah, I think I've said this before, but I think a lot of, um, uh, just the culture of surfing is a little bit like, no, everyone wants to look competent. Right. And so a lot, a lot of surfing culture is the perception that you put out there. Right? Like, I'm the cool guy. I got the right board, I got I'm not a kook, you know, I'm wearing the right trunk. So I've got the right wetsuit and I've got the right traction pad and whatever it is, I've got the cool label. This is what I'm, you know, because a lot of people are more concerned with what, how others perceive them in the lineup, because sometimes, you know, how you're perceived in the lineup, gives you status and gives you, you know, if you're competent, you can kind of you get more waves and you get a little bit more respect from people around you. And so there's a little bit of a game that people play in trying to, um, project competency and cool and a cool factor. And I'm not a kook. And so sometimes people put too much weight on that and they're more concerned with what they look like on the beach or in the car park than they actually are. Matt Parker - And then the enjoyment they're actually getting out of it themselves, you know, like, are you actually having fun? If you mentioned like the guys that are flapping around and having a miserable time. There's always people out in the water that are having you kind of wonder sometimes. Do you actually like, what are you actually getting out of this? Do you actually enjoy what you're doing? And, uh, I don't know, every different stroke for different folks. People get different things out of it. And maybe that little social status thing is more important than the actual surfing. And I, I think that's obviously short term thinking because and it's like, that's a hollow chase that you're after because you're never going to be satisfied with that. And you shouldn't be. I don't think you should be spending too much time pursuing things for the approval of others. You know, surfing is kind of a solitary pursuit, right? You're you're the one that's doing it, and you're the one that's riding the wave, and you're the one that's having that moment and feeling it. If you're doing it for what other people think about you, I think you're missing. You're missing the point, you know? Michael Frampton - So, yeah, well, I definitely fit it in that category for a while. Um, we all do. Matt Parker - At some point, you know, in a little bit. We all do. You know everyone? No. Like I said, everybody who surfs wants to look competent. Kelly Slater doesn't want to be a kook. He wants to be the cool guy in the lineup. We all kind of have that feeling to a certain degree. Michael Frampton - Um, and there's something to be said, you know, surfing that high performance shortboard in all types of conditions you will develop a very intimate relationship with that surfboard. And when the waves do turn on, you're going to be pretty used to it. And then, you know, you're probably going to have a better surf on that day. Um, but was there a point in your surfing [00:20:00] life where that changed, like where you started riding different boards, more volume, etc.? Matt Parker - Um, yeah. Like I said, I grew up in the like, I started surfing in the late 80s, early, and then through the 90s, I was a teenager and then in the early 90s and, uh, back then it was really about just being competent enough and you just riding what everybody else wrote. And that was really all that was available was just kind of your standard shortboards for, um, I guess for, for me as, like a general public, you know, not in, you know, I didn't have any my dad surfed a little bit when he was young, but I didn't I didn't come from like a long line of family surfing and all that kind of stuff. And so probably I, I started getting curious, more curious about surfboards. Um, and that's kind of what led me into shaping a little bit is that I was interested. I, you know, you get back then this is pre-internet really, you know, but you would get little. To see different little videos. You'd see different things that were just like, oh, you know, like, that looks fun. That looks like more fun. I was surfing Newport Beach. It's two foot closeouts most of the time it's not good. It's, you know, it's hard. Like surfing is hard out there and you're riding equipment that's bad. Matt Parker - So you just have a lot of frustrating sessions and you just like, just gotta, you know, just you would see videos, you'd see guys in good waves. And so that was always like I was interested in, um, trying different boards to get a different experience. You know, I was competent enough, but I was by no means pro or anything like that. I was good enough out in the lineup to get waves and to surf and fine, but it was not. But I always felt like those boards held me back, too, you know, just the normal boards, because they kind of, you know, they you just have like, it can't be this frustrating all the time. So the interest in different boards. So I would go to different shops and I would want to get a board that was different and I could never really find one. You know, it can never really find what I was looking for. And then, um, even when I would order custom boards, you know, from local shapers, you would try to explain what I had in my brain, what I was like trying to go for. And it was never it never like it was probably my fault for not communicating that clearly what I was really after, but it never was it. Matt Parker - And so I was, uh, in design school and art school and taking all these like, sculpture and drawing and painting classes and stuff. And so it was just kind of a natural extension to get a blank and some tools and kind of experiment and just try to make something without any restrictions of what it had to look like, because I was just fooling around, you know. So that was probably the, the, the interest. And that was probably at the time when, like, um, things were coming more online and you had more access to just different things other people were doing. And so you could kind of see, uh, you know, your world was kind of opened up as far as, like, oh, there's like other shapers and all these places making different things. And there are a lot of cool things out there that I just hadn't really experienced and I didn't have. I had never tried or felt or seen in person, but like, it just kind of expanded what was possible. And, the interest level and surfing really grew. And my fun level expanded too, because it was like everything was opened up more. Michael Frampton - Um, and then it sounds like the developer or the birth of album surfboards was quite organic. You saw essentially a gap in the market, right? Matt Parker - Yeah. Why? Initially, for years I was shaping boards with no, no intention of it being a thing, being a business or anything. It was more I just wanted to try different things. And, um, the creation, the creation part of it was really fun, like just designing and trying something and the tactile thing of making something with your hands and then seeing it finished and then going and writing it was very addicting. It was very, um, yeah, just kind of opened my mind a lot. And it was just it's just it made, um, the exploration process of trying different boards, satisfying even if the surf was bad. So in the old days, you know, as a kid when I was a teenager and you're trying to just, like, do all the moves you see in the videos and you're having frustrating sessions because the waves aren't good most of the time, and you're writing boards that aren't good. You just surfing wasn't as fun. And so when I was, when I was making boards and exploring and trying these different types of shapes, just going out and seeing that it worked and making it like get down the line and get the feeling of speed that I was kind of envisioning with it was satisfying. Matt Parker - So the waves didn't have to be good, and my surfing didn't have to be amazing. And I was still, like, very satisfied and validated and surf stoked. I was inspired to go make another board and surf more because I wanted to try out these things that I was, um, that I was playing around with, but. I did that for years. Hundreds, probably a couple thousand boards before it was even, like a real, um, business I was doing. I was a designer by trade, and so I was doing like graphic design work, and that was kind of what my, uh, employment or job focus was, and was making boards was like this side, this just kind of creative art project on the side that I could just have fun with and I could usually like, um, sell, sell one to pay for another one and, you know, find it, you know, put it up like in the used rack at a shop and sell it on consignment. Just turn it over enough to learn the craft without any pressure of having to be a professional at doing it. Michael Frampton - Yeah. So. So did your entrepreneurial journey begin with the album agency? Matt Parker - Yeah, exactly. So that was I was running my own business and just doing client work, client design work that way. And um, the building the surfboards and kind of treating it like my own little micro brand was kind of also an extension of the graphic design side. So I was able to kind of like, you know, you're doing you're doing work on for clients in industries that you're not really interested in, you know, and I was like, here's, here's a chance for me to play around with design and create it and kind of like make this a fun little, like. You know, brand for fun without any, you know, strings attached. Yeah. That's pretty. Michael Frampton - And what inspired you to make the leap? To turn the surfboards into the main business? Matt Parker - Uh, there was just, uh. Well, I was doing it at night, so I would be working, like, in the day, like client work and, um, uh, designing and and, uh, getting projects done. And then I'd go home and have dinner with the family and then put the little kids to bed and go in my garage or go in my backyard and shape at night. And I was doing this a lot. So I was working a lot. I was working a full time plus job and then shaping on the side and demanding just kind of like, you know, we're just kind of we would get out, you know, I was making boards that were probably interesting and that resonated with other people that they hadn't seen either. And there was something unique about what we were doing. And so, um, the age of when we are, you know, in this last 15 years where things are just more accessible and people can find you easier, you know, it just kind of the awareness of what I was doing got out there probably faster than if it was 30 years ago. No, the people in my little community would have known. But then. So then people would just want to order a board, and then that just kind of gets to this, uh, point where, uh, the demand kind of exceeds like the time on the other side. And so just kind of realized like, oh, there's, uh, I think and by that point, too, I had made enough boards and had enough awareness of, like, just the surf industry and kind of where things, where things were that you could kind of see opportunities, uh, or openings in the market. And like, here we have something different to say, and there's people that are interested in what we're doing. So yeah, let's make a little run at it. Michael Frampton - Yeah. Well you mentioned supply and demand. I mean that is why business exists. So obviously the culture is changing. You know, people are more interested in, uh, you know, different shapes. And, uh, I would say a higher level of longevity. You get a much more longevity out of a surfboard like yours as opposed to a pop out, um, white shortboard for sure. Matt Parker - I think the other thing, too, was I made boards. I made some boards for some good surfers, some pros and things like that, and they worked really well. And so there was kind of like this validation of like, oh, okay. Like, I mean, I knew like I was like I said, I was competent enough to know that they worked for my level of surfing, and I was having an amazing time at having fun. And my friends were. But then, um, when you when I made some boards for guys that could surf really well, and then they had more fun on that too. It was kind of like, oh, you know, maybe there really is something a little different that we're doing that does work and makes sense of like we should kind of should follow that path because there's, there's something there that hasn't been tapped into yet, and it resonates with guys that can surf at the highest level. So we should kind of pursue that. Michael Frampton - Um, that leads me into a question I have about let's get into your designs a little bit. So. I remember I first got into surfing fish surfboards. I had a Christiansen fish that I used to surf a lot. And then I remember one day the waves turned [00:30:00] on, um, and rising swell. And next thing, next thing you know, I'm surfing almost double overhead waves. And I find man to to be able to surf that fish in those real good solid waves, I would have to move my feet closer to the inside rail to do a bottom turn, and then I go up to do a top turn. It would just slide outside. This is not the right surfboard, but at the same time, I don't want to be surfing a high performance shortboard. And then you look at someone like Josh Kerr surfing the twins men or the, um, insanity. I think it is in the mentor wise in double overhead waves getting barreled and doing airs on what is, I guess, hybrid or alternative high performance shape. Now, is that the kind of board that only he can ride in those waves? Or is it designed so that anyone can have a good time in those overseas waves? Matt Parker - Well, I think there's a misnomer to me, there was always a misnomer in the marketplace that high performance shortboards are for like real surfing and alternative boards are just, you know, for fun or whatever. And, um, I think if you look at the trajectory of surf of surfboards from, you know, longboards logs up into the early 60s, mid 60s to how quickly it progressed and revolutionized, like what people were riding in such a short window of time. There's so many, um, like, design steps along the way and different types of boards along the way that, like, didn't get their full, uh, fleshing out. Right. So there's a lot of ideas in that time and I, I mean, Twin Fins is a perfect example of that. Like where twin fins were really at like their height from, you know, 78 to 81 or something like that, or, you know, 77, like, what is it, 3 or 4 years or something like that, where twin fins were like the, you know, high performance little hot dog board that people were riding and that was with kind of like, I mean, nowadays, like that window of time is a is a blink, you know, three years. It's like most of us have boards that we've surfed for five, six, eight years. You know what I mean? So three years is nothing. And so, you know, you just see like, oh, the fins they were writing, they didn't have enough time to develop the right fins for them, and they didn't have enough time to think about fin placement and, and designing the rail shape and bottom contour to fit like where that goes and like what type of wave that needs to be surfed in and what blanks were available and different glassing, you know, layups and all that. Matt Parker - It was just like it was just too fast. And so, um, I've always felt like, um, alternative boards, twin fins are not, um, like a, a cop out of, like, I'm just I'm just going to screw around. Like, it's like any sort of design, any, any, any place. I'm going to take a surfboard. There's like an intended, uh, performance or design intention for that concept. And so the concept is meant to perform at a high level. It's just a different way of doing it. And um, and so like with Josh, those boards, like he has more fun and more freedom, more speed, they're easier to turn on a twin fin, you know, and so if you can make them and design it to be able to handle any type of wave, there's there's certainly obviously capable and validated by him and others in those types of waves. And so it's it's just a matter of, um, uh, backing it, backing the concept and then proving the concept and then iterating the idea and the concept enough to prove it out and refine it and get it right so that it actually does work in those types of ways. Matt Parker - But I think sometimes when, uh, like, uh, you know, shapers or whatever, if, if they're focused on one thing, if they're focused on high performance shortboards, their version of a twin fin or a fish is like a is not the main design intention. It's almost like a little, it's like a spin off of their shortboard idea. And it's like they take their shortboard idea and they kind of fatten it a little bit and just put two fins in it instead of three and, you know, maybe make it a swallowtail. We'll call it the alternative board. And to me, I'm more focused on the concept of a high performance swim fin that maybe surfs better or is more of an advantage than a shortboard would be in those waves. And so it's like, how would I design it? Where do the fins go? What does that mean for the bottom contour? Like what dimensions are we talking about. You know, and so there's so like the funnest thing about surfing is there's so many variables in the, in the types of waves in the swell and the wind conditions and the interval and the where you're surfing, the type of surfing you want to do. And so there's kind of like these endless rabbit holes of design and conceptual thinking. You can go down and create whatever. And it's so fun too, because I mean, I think surfers should be, should be very grateful and realize how fortunate that we all are. Michael Frampton - That we we we. Matt Parker - Um, participate in this pursuit where we can make all sorts of different things all the time. I mean, if you're like, if you're driving or you're, uh, skiing or whatever it is, it's much more difficult to you're not going you're not going to go make a, a ten different concepts of skis that you're going to go try out every time, every different time you go surfing. But with the surfboards you can make, you know, I can go surf today, have a session out there, get the pros and cons of the Board of Writing. I come back to design something based on that idea, shape it that day, gloss it, and be surfing something next week. Michael Frampton - Mm. Matt Parker - Something that I was intending to design for. That's just like a, it's just a cool thing that we're, we all kind of. And surfing small enough surf industry is small enough that if you're, uh, uh, motivated like you can have access to any of that, it's relatively, you know, for what that is for the for the, uh, access to that kind of R&D and design like options for different types of boards. It's relatively expensive, not super cost prohibitive. You know, if you're if you're into it, if you're committed to it, it's affordable enough. You can, you know. Michael Frampton - Mhm. Yeah I think the importance of a quiver is. Yeah I mean I don't know whether that's why you chose the name album. But you know it makes me think of a good album like Pearl jam ten which is ten really good songs, all with different moods but still the same album. You know, you can sit, you can sit down and listen to the album, or you can sit down and listen to one song and I almost see a. A surfboard quiver is like that. It's, you know, has ten surfboards that are for you, but for the different types of moods and the waves that you're surfing. But it does make me think, because there's also that Swiss Army knife surfboard that kind of does pretty good in most waves and tends to excel in sort of head high. Good waves, for sure. What's that? What's that surfboard for you within your quiver? What would that Swiss army knife board be? Matt Parker - Well, that would probably be like a board I would travel with. Right. Because you're something that you would have that you'd want to have, um, versatility for. And that would probably be like Victor's model. Like a banana. Bunches like a quad, asymmetrical quad. It's kind of a hybrid. It's definitely a performance board, but it definitely is easier to go fast. And it paddles a little bit better. And it turns out to be super easy. And it's versatile in a lot of kinds of ways. Um, it's probably something like that. Um, honestly, uh, if you have the right mindset, though, almost any board in your quiver should be able to fill that slot, I think. Michael Frampton - Yeah, that's a good point. Matt Parker - Yep. It's all I mean, there's a to me there's there's, um, you know, there's sometimes there's people sometimes we all do it where we're no matter what board you're surfing, people try to surf the same way. Right. They have like they're the way I bought them turned. This is my turn. I do, and this is my little re-entry idea. And you'll watch them out there. And it doesn't matter if they're riding their fish or mid length or short board or whatever it is, they kind of surf the same. And uh, that's fine. That's totally fine. But I, I think it's good to, um, be a little bit more open to what the board wants to do and the type of surfing that board is going to allow you to do and, and how it might open up the kind of surfing you do and the enjoyment you get out of that kind of surfing so that it makes you a little bit more versatile in what your approach is like. Victor Bernardo, who writes for us, is like is a really good example of that because I think a lot of times people when they're like when they're building a quiver, they are a little bit too narrow in scope or what like range, they're they're going for like I it happens all the time where I'll have people that they kind of they want their fish and their short board and a twin fin and everything to kind of be all within, like a little volume range, like, here's my leader, here's the leader I [00:40:00] ride, and my boards need to be within 30 to 30 1.5l. Matt Parker - And they try to fit like all their boards. And it's like, I think you're missing out if you're thinking about it in that way. So Victor is this perfect example because he's a young man, 26, 27 years old, the highest level professional surfer can surf as well as anybody in the world. Um. Competed on the show, did all that stuff right. But if you look at his quiver, it is like. From five 0 to 8 zero and everything in between. I mean, obviously he has access to a lot of boards, which helps. It makes it easy to ride a lot of stuff. But still his mindset is like his, if you were just talking about what volume he writes, he writes from 29l to 42l, you know what I mean? So his range is like this and these are all. Different types of what I would call performance sports. So even yesterday or this week we were in Hawaii. Matt Parker - He's still there right now. But we were on the North Shore this past week and he was riding A68 bungee roundtail, which is normal. His normal version is like a five 8 or 5 nine, and he was riding the six eight roundtail version that was plus volume. It was actually one of Brendan Morrison's boards that Margo left there in Hawaii. When Margo went back to Australia, Victor took it out and got a couple amazing waves of pipe, you know, on that on that board. And so it's just I and definitely not limiting his performance, actually enhancing his performance because it was something that unique that he wouldn't have maybe taken out normally, but it just kind of opened up his surfing. And I think if you remain a little bit more, um, open, open to what the board wants to do and what the waves are asking you to do, you will just have more fun. Yeah. Surfing gets to, like you were saying, just like it started right when you're riding the glider and then you go jump onto your shore board, your surfing is better because you're kind of your fundamentals are better. Your timing is a little different. You know, your mindset is a little different. Michael Frampton - So yeah, I think every board you ride opens up. You have to read the waves a little differently and look for different lines. And like you said, your timing has to be better. Or maybe it can be more lax or you're looking for a different type of wave or whatever. So I think it really just helps you to read the ocean better. I think that's the main reason why different surfboards, uh, can improve your surfing when you jump back on your favorite board because you just read the wave with more detail. Writing that glider changed my realization of how big and how fast of a section I can actually make because those boards go ridiculously fast. Um, yeah. And I surprised myself many times with what I could, what section I could get around and that literally translated to surfing other boards. I'm going to try and make that section. I'm going to get a bit lower and stay on the whitewash a bit longer. And lo and behold, surfing that big crazy board just had me making different types of waves and changing my whole perspective on reading the ocean. Um, it sounds like I agree with that. It sounds like Victor Victor needs to go longer as well. Matt Parker - He does. He rides bigger. But I think the point of a querer is to make you surf as much as possible. So no matter what the waves are, you have the right board to have fun that day. And that's really the, to me, the thing that improves you as a surfer the most is water time. So if you're surfing a lot, if you're surfing more days than you're not, you're going to get better. You read the ocean better your time, your timing is better, your strength, your paddle strength is better. All that stuff kind of comes into play the more you surf. And so if you have a quiver that motivates you to want to surf and makes you kind of no matter what the waves are, you're like, oh, I'm stoked to go out today because I have the right board and I'm going to have more fun. And you see those guys struggling and you're having fun and they're miserable. It's like, oh yeah, you made the right choice, and you have the right board to just get out in the water a lot. Michael Frampton - Yeah, I think you nailed it that that's that is the point of a quiver. So it's as simple as that. And you're right. I mean, the best thing that ultimately that you can do for your surfing is not only to surf more, but to surf more waves. And if you're on the right surfboard for the condition, you are going to catch more waves when it's knee high. Here at my local point break and there's no one out, I'm I'm literally giddy because I have an 11 foot Josh Hall and no one can compete with that because no one. Matt Parker - How did you ship that thing to New Zealand? How did you get that point there? That's what I want to know. Michael Frampton - Yeah, I know, it. Matt Parker- Just. Michael Frampton -I, I filled a container with all of my stuff. So I've got, I've got my weight, I got my weighing rich nine eight and everything. Everything here. So how. How would you if I just asked you an open question? What is a surfboard? Matt Parker - Uh, well, there's the, you know, it's foam and fiberglass and resin and all that. Right. Uh, but I think it's just it's a tool to allow you to go ride the waves. So whatever that is, it, um, comes in, comes in many forms, that's for sure. Yeah. Uh, I think it's, uh, depending on, you know, the a surfboard for pipeline, like we were where we were at last week is not a surfboard for Upper Trestles, where I surf most every other day. Very, very different tools for those different, different types of waves. And so I think it's a tool that gets you to, to catch a wave and ride a wave. Yeah. Michael Frampton - Simple. How would you describe your current relationship with surfing in the ocean, and how has it evolved over the years? Matt Parker - Um, I surf a lot. To me, it's the most important thing in my job as a designer and shaper and surfboard manufacturer is being in the water as much as I can. So I, I surf 5 or 6 days a week. And, uh, it's kind of a like daily ritual getting out there. And so I surf a lot. Um, I, I'm 47 now, so I'm definitely past my peak of, uh, I've my, my better my best days are behind me as far as, like strength and ability level and all that kind of stuff. But I definitely have more fun surfing now than I ever have in my life. And, uh, I get more enjoyment out of it and I have a better perspective on it. And so, um, you just appreciate different things about sessions that you, you skipped and you missed when you're young and immature. And so, you know, with age comes wisdom. And so I definitely yeah, I appreciate it. Every session I go out I just have a better mindset for, uh, just appreciating the opportunity to go out and surf. I live in a place where I have things like surf boards to ride and just waves most every day that are rideable. It's a real blessing. So I think that my mindset makes me appreciate it more now than ever. So. Mhm. Michael Frampton - Yeah I like that. What's I'm going to go back to. So we talked about the Swiss army, the single board. What if you could take what if you could choose three boards to travel with or just to have what those three boards be. Matt Parker - It's, you know it's funny we were because we're talking about quivers. Right. And I'm actually like, I, I don't have a great quiver because I don't have boards. I hold on to that long. The problem for me is that I'm always, uh, I'm always doing R&D and and working on new models and new boards. And so it's, it's ever changing. So my answer would probably be that if you asked me next month, it would probably be different than it would be a month ago. So it changes all the time. But if I was going to like where we live, going down to Mexico, go down there all the time and surf the points, I would for sure take some form of a fish. I've been riding, um, a version of Asher Pacey's Sunstone with a little hip, and I've been riding it as a quad a bunch lately, and I've been riding it with, um, twin fin like upright twin fins in the lead boxes and little small trailers and the quad trailer boxes, and been having a good old time on that, so I would definitely bring one of those. I'd probably bring a, uh, like a bigger board, like, uh, like one of Margot's models in Vesper or a Delma, which is like a stretched out, kind of like a slot channel. Concave bonds or little bottom quad. I definitely bring one of those. I can hang in good surf, too. And they're really nimble, easy to turn for a big board. I'll ride those six, 8 to 7, 2 to 7, four, seven, six. I have an 80I take out on that all the time. Um, definitely take that. And then I'd probably take something asymmetrical, some sort of a disorder model, which is like my high performance kind of like foolish rails outlines shifted and [00:50:00] or a bungee. Like I was saying, it's probably something to at least like to cover the bases. Yep. Michael Frampton - Okay, cool. I'm taking a whale shark, a Vespa and an insanity. Matt Parker - Oh that's good. That's a good call to the, uh, yeah. The whale shark would tick that glider box for you for sure. Uh, so I. Michael Frampton - Want one so bad just by reading the description. That's it. Yeah. Matt Parker - Uh. Matt Parker - When you're talking about that build up of that section and you're just in so early and you have fun for me, the fun of those boards is that kinetic energy of like, the speed building, like you build the speed and maintain the speed and build the speed some more. And it's just a very satisfying feeling. It's just me and I. We make longboards and I enjoy longboarding. But I prefer it if I'm riding a big bull like a big board. I prefer a glider for a big twin, like a whale shark. I have a little bit more fun just because I. I probably surf more off the back foot than I do in a walking and walking the nose and all that kind of stuff. Michael Frampton - So yeah. Same. Yeah. It's amazing if you, if you got your if you're used to it and you get your timing right, you can step back on an 11 foot board and do a cutback. And like it's so satisfying in the and you're right, it's the main reason the maintenance of the momentum of one of those big boards is such an incredible feeling. And it's amazing what sections you can make. And I've had some of the longest rides ever. Oh, I bet in and on what most people would seem as unmakeable waves just by taking that high line and trusting it. It's uh. Yeah, it's an incredible feeling. Matt Parker - Riding gliders is like it's own form of riding a foil board. It's like you're almost ride those boards. You ride those waves that, um, you know, no one else can really get into depth. Length of ride is insane on those. Yeah. Michael Frampton - And it's, um, Joel Tudor says it's the ultimate goal, right? Is Skip Frye. Matt Parker - Oh, yeah, for sure. Michael Frampton - It's the end game. Michael Frampton -Uh, but it's, uh, I mean, I've, I've surfed that board in. I was a few years ago. We had it in Malibu. There's a little doom. There's an outer reef that breaks when you get those, those 18 second northwest swells. I took my glider out there and it was double overhead barreling, and I was like, wow, maybe I shouldn't have bought this. But I managed to get such a high line and set the rail so early that I could just avoid the barrel and still have and still catch the waves and have such a rad time. So there's such versatile boards if you know how to surf them. Matt Parker - And you're doing your own step offs. Michael Frampton - Basically. Matt Parker - Oh it is towed in out the back. Yeah. It's just like being able to paddle that fast. It's amazing. Michael Frampton - Oh yeah. And that's the thing. You can pedal around so much. That's what I like about them so much too if you can see a section over there. You can just paddle over to it. Matt Parker - And that board's going to last you forever. 20 years from now, you'll still be searching roughly. You'll have that. You'll have that thing forever. Yeah. Which is special. Michael Frampton - Yeah. Was that so? Obviously it sounds like you've experienced writing. Was that the inspiration for the whale shark writing? Gliders. Matt Parker - Yeah. Just write just just because like I was saying, I'm not like I'm not a longboarder. That's walking on the nose. And you know, I'm more into just trim and glide and that feeling. And obviously you want to have a board that you can ride for us on those longboard days when it's really small and it's just soft and just little open faces. And so that was my preference was to ride that style of board. And so it was. It's just for me it's like an extension of the fish. Obviously it's taking A56 fish and making it ten six and so on. So the same kind of principle is a little bit for me. It's just putting it with a really long rail and with a different, you know, sort of rocker to fit that wave face. Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. Just a side note for listeners, if you haven't written a longboard or a log, don't go out and buy a glider. It's, it's get used to a long board first because there are a lot of surfboards. And you're if you don't know how to ride them, you're just going to hurt someone. Matt Parker - You're nine. Four was a perfect little entry point. Michael Frampton - Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Now soft tops. I wanted to ask you about soft tips. You guys are making soft tops. I haven't seen or touched or ridden one of your soft tops, but they look quite different to the Cosco or the int style ones. What's your point of difference with soft tops? Matt Parker - We make them in a few different places. We have uh, some that we make that are like injected foam. And so it's where we actually took my shape to board and we made a mold, I shaped a few boards and we made molds off of these finished shaped boards. And that allows you to really put in design detail into that mold. And so like one of them has a little channel bottom, you can put real thin boxes in them. Um, they're obviously not high performance because they're phonies, you know what I mean? But there's a different mindset. There's the right day for that. Even if you surf well, obviously for beginners, they're great because you can surf them into the sand and they just float easy to catch waves. They're kind of a little bit um, they're a little bit slower. So the pacing of them kind of matches the wave when you're just kind of learning to like, ride the trim and ride the like the speed of the wave. So for people, learning is great, but for people that know how to surf, it's like those days when it's closing out and it's on the sand, or you just want to go out and have fun and fool around. Matt Parker - It's something different. So, um, so those ones we do and those are made in the US and there's just like injection foam molded soft tops. And then we also make some in Peru that are, uh, by the surfers in Peru, which are pretty sick. They're kind of more, they've got, um, a foam core and they have stringers and they're kind of like a slick bottom, like, uh, like some of the soft tops, you see. But they actually have like, real shape and they have a better flex to them. And there's real thin boxes. And those are kind of like, uh, a kind of a cool in-between where if you're like a kid or you're someone who's like kind of progressing, it's a great board to kind of progress on because you can actually turn them and you can surf them pretty decently and they're less, you know, less expensive and all that. They're made in a surf country by surfers, which is pretty cool. Michael Frampton - Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I've got a 96 INT that I absolutely love. Um and I've always huh. Matt Parker - Ah It is got really good. Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. Michael Frampton - And it lasted quite a while actually. It's still going. I actually surfed it every day when I was doing lessons for a long time and then would just end up catching loads of waves on it. I love them so much because it's a boat, right? The nine six int, it's a thick, big surfboard, but because it I think because it flexes so much, it's you can ride it in lots of different types of waves and actually have it actually really turn it much easier than the same amount of surfboard if it was a stiff sort of a is that why? And then you watch Jamie O'Brien surf them and pipe like. Matt Parker - Well, it's just funny. Matt Parker- It’s sometimes it looks like he has the right board for them which is insane. He's obviously a. Matt Parker - Freak but that's. Matt Parker- But to me the point of it is, it's like it's a mindset thing. When you're riding those boards, you're kind of like, you're not you're definitely not trying to win a contest. When you're riding one of those, you're definitely going out there to have fun and kind of goof around, which is really good. This is a good reset for surfing, I think, as you kind of, you know. You can't try too hard. We just. Matt Parker - Got out there and. Matt Parker - It's much easier to kind of give, give a wave away to someone else. You're not you're not going to be back paddling people to get waves when you're on those. And so you're it's just it's a good mindset to reset and have fun on them. And that's why it's amazing how many sessions you have on those where you have a lot of fun, because your mindset is in a good place and you're not you're not overdoing it, you're not overcooking it, and you're better. Perspective. Michael Frampton - Yeah, yeah, I guess you're not too worried about it cracking. If you miss time, something close to the sand or the board hits you a little bit, it's not as bad. Yeah, I've always enjoyed it. I've always enjoyed the novelty of riding a soft top. And it's stoked to see you guys making some, some, some more refined looking ones. Matt Parker - Yeah. I mean, the idea is obviously still there. The point is that they're soft tops. But if we can kind of come at it from a different angle, there's no need for us to go to the same factory that Wave storm or Cat surf makes and then just put different graphics on a soft top. Those already exist, right? Like we don't need to just have our that's just another commodity. We don't, we don't need to make another one of those. But if we can like if we can make something that's a little unique or that offers something different from everything else that's out there, and it gives a different feeling and we explore different things, then cool. We'll try it out and we'll give it a go. So. Michael Frampton - Um, cool. Well, Matt, thank you so much for your time. I got one more question I want to leave you with before we sign off, which is what's your best and worst surf advice? That you ever received? Matt Parker - Yeah, I would see. I would say me too. But the worst would be. Matt Parker - I mean, the. Matt Parker - Best would definitely be like we've been talking about is like, uh, I've said this and I've said this before, this is kind of like my running theme a little bit as far as, like, choose the board, you know, when you're going to decide what you're going to ride. Like, think about if there was no one else on the beach and no one else is out in the water like you're talking about that day when you're happy and you're the only one out. Like, what would you actually ride? What do you actually really have the most fun surfing on? And that could be a short board. It could be a high performance short board. You could be. That's the day you take it out because you're not, you know, you're kind of kooky on it, but you want to get good and that's what you want to get out of it. But to me it's like I pick the board that if I don't do it to for the approval of others, you know, like choose what you really want to ride and what you really want to experience and just go do that and go have fun and I think you'll have the most fun. Um, I'm trying to think, like what? Uh, maybe that, um, you need to have an epoxy board for a wave pool. That's the worst. Matt Parker - That's that. That's it. I don't know how applicable that is, but. Michael Frampton - I think it's going to be more and more applicable very soon. Matt Parker - Well, I think and maybe that goes in line with what I think there are in surfing. There shouldn't be hard and fast rules. You know, sometimes there's like these perceptions and there's hard and fast rules like this is what you got to do and this is the way you gotta do it. And I don't like surfing. Doesn't have to like who says who don't have to do. Matt Parker- It's that way. Michael Frampton - Yeah. There's a famous surfer I can't remember. Is it Kelly Slater? I think he surfs a door. Michael Frampton - Yeah, you can. You can surf anything. Even an old door. Matt Parker - Exactly, exactly. I know a table. I think he surfs a table, like upside down. Michael Frampton - Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And isn't there a video with Taj Burrow and Chris Ward all surfing, all sorts of objects. Yeah. So yeah, there's no rules, right? Matt Parker - Like, why are we doing this? What are we doing this for? We want to have fun. Just be out in the ocean. So. Michael Frampton - Yeah. Exactly. Uh, well, Matt, thank you so much for your time, man. Appreciate it. Matt Parker - Yeah. Matt Parker - Great to chat with you. Cool. Michael Frampton - All right. Simple as that. Thanks, man. Matt Parker - Yeah. Good to meet you. Michael Frampton - You too. Matt Parker on the Surf Mastery Podcast…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
97 Guy Kawasaki - Tech Guru Discovers Surfing at 60

36 weeks yang lalu

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Welcome to Surf Mastery Podcast, where we explore the fascinating intersections of life, sports, and the pursuit of challenges. In this episode, our host Michael John Frampton sits down with Guy Kawasaki to discuss the joys and trials of picking up surfing at 60, his unique philosophy on parenting and life, and the profound lessons learned along the way. Guy Kawasaki is a speaker, avid surfer, and respected author. His notable works include The Art of the Start , Enchantment: The Art of Changing Hearts, Minds, and Actions , and Wise Guy: Lessons from a Life . He is well-known for his influential role as Apple's Chief Evangelist in the 1980s and his significant contributions to Canva. Beyond his professional achievements, his passion for surfing, which he took up in his 60s is a profound metaphor for life's lessons. Episode Highlights: Surfing at Sixty: Guy shares his inspiring journey of starting to surf at the age of 60, motivated by his children's passions. Unlike many parents who impose their hobbies on their children, Guy believes in embracing what his children love, leading him to take up surfing and hockey later in life. Parenting Philosophy: Guy discusses his approach to parenting, emphasizing the importance of supporting and engaging in his children's interests rather than directing them. Life Lessons from Surfing: Surfing has not just been a sport for Guy but a source of life lessons. He talks about the complexities and unpredictability of surfing, drawing parallels between managing waves and life's challenges. Humorous Anecdotes: From confusing directions underwater to humorous interactions in the surf community, Guy brings a light-hearted perspective to the challenges of learning to surf. Persistence and Adaptability: Guy reflects on the broader implications of persistence in surfing, comparing it to career and personal life, where adaptability and resilience are crucial. Insights on Book Writing: Discussing his concise approach to writing, Guy emphasizes the importance of distilling vast amounts of information into accessible insights, mirroring his practical approach to life. Key Quotes: "Rather than me forcing them to take up what I love, I let them determine what I should take up based on what they love." "The first time I actually caught a wave and stood up, it was magic. Where else can you get this feeling?" "You can sit out there in the water looking for that perfect wave all day and never turn and paddle. The same thing applies to life." Follow Guy Kawasaki: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guykawasaki/ Website: https://guykawasaki.com/ Full Show Transcript: Michael Frampton: Welcome back to the Surf Mastery podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton, and today's guest is Guy Kawasaki. You may have heard that name. He's very famous in Silicon Valley, especially for his early role and involvement with Apple. He's gone on to do a lot of projects since then. Too many to mention in this short intro, but one of his most recent projects is a very successful 200-plus episode podcast called 'Remarkable People', and he recently released a new book called 'Think Remarkable'. Based on those interviews, and the main reason that I wanted to get him on the show is because he started surfing at 60. Yes, six zero. Started surfing at 60. So yes, Guy has a very unique perspective on beginning surfing, and I was very excited when he accepted the invite to come on the show, and he did not disappoint. So without further ado, I will fade in my conversation with Guy Kawasaki. Hello, Guy, how are you? Guy Kawasaki: I'm good. I can hear you now. Yes. Michael Frampton: Excellent. And I've got you. Right. And it's recording. It looks like all the technical stuff is out of the way. Guy Kawasaki: Don't get overconfident. The day is young. Michael Frampton: It sure is. Well, and your lust for surfing. That's also quite young. Starting at 60. My gosh, that is. That's very late in life to start surfing. What inspired you to start? Guy Kawasaki: What inspired me was that my daughter in particular became an avid and competitive surfer. And I kind of have a different parenting perspective and philosophy. I think many parents, what they do is they inadvertently or advertently force their kids to take up what they're interested in. So if you're a golfer, your kid's golf, you're a surfer, your kid's surf. If you are a, I don't know, physicist, your kids take up physics or violin or whatever. Yeah, in my family it worked differently. So rather than forcing the kids to take up what I loved, they would force me to take up what I said that wrong rather than I take up what I could speak English. English is my first language rather than me forcing them to take up what I love. I let they determine what I should take up based on what they love. And so they loved surfing and they loved hockey. So I took up hockey at 44, and I took up surfing at 60 because that's what my kids are into. Michael Frampton: Oh, I love that, you're a good dad and that's an awesome philosophy and I actually have the same philosophy my kids got into football when they were quite young, and I just started playing with them, even though I never grew up playing it. I never liked the game, but now I actually love the game and have a strong appreciation for it. Guy Kawasaki: So when you say football, you mean American oblong football or European-like round waffle? Oh okay. Okay. Soccer. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Guy Kawasaki: Because if you took up American football at a late age, it's hard to get 20, 21 other guys out there with helmets killing each other so. Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. It's a rough sport. I mean, I grew up playing rugby, so I'm no stranger to that sort of world. But, it's not something you do when you're a or certainly not something you take up when you're older. It's a brutal sport. Guy Kawasaki: So I think. Michael Frampton: That thing can be pretty brutal, too. I mean, I'm sure you've had some gnarly wipeouts in your learning curve. Guy Kawasaki: Well, listen, my sweet spot is maybe 3 to 4 at the most. Okay? Like, I am perfectly happy at 1 to 2ft. My daughter surfs at Mavericks and stuff, but that's not me, but I will tell you that, there have been times where in, like, a one-foot wave, I fall down and I lose perspective and reference and I'm like paddling, trying to get back up to the surface and I hit my head on the bottom because I was going the wrong way. I've done some very kooky things, I assure you. Michael Frampton: So I'm interested to know, like, you're a smart guy. I'm sure when you decided to start surfing, what was your first entry point like? Did you get a lesson with someone? Did you just buy a board and jump in? How did you go about it? Guy Kawasaki: Listen, when you start surfing at 60, well, one would hope that in 60 years you've acquired some kind of street smartness. So you figure out that, you're just not going to go to Costco and buy $150 board and then go out to Mavericks and decide to surf and, you know, with your goggles and your GoPro and your helmet and your zinc on your face. So the first thing I did was I took lessons. I took lessons in Hawaii, I took lessons in India, I took lessons in Santa Cruz. I took lessons at Cowell's and at Jacks. I kind of figured out that, when you start that late, you've got to accelerate the pace. And the way to accelerate the pace is to get instruction. Not by hanging out with Groms all day, trying to surf during the summer. Michael Frampton: Yeah. So you sort many different opinions on instructions as well. That's a great strategy. Was there one particular lesson that stood out to you? Guy Kawasaki: Every lesson was difficult. I started paddle surfing. I don't know why I started paddle surfing, but anyway, so I started with paddle boards and then a surf instructor here in Santa Cruz was just who was coaching my daughter at the time. He definitely established the, should I say, pecking order in surfing, and let's just say that paddle boarding is beneath prone surfing. And so it was a constant humiliation. So at one point I just got tired of being humiliated. And I said, all right, so throw away the paddle, give me a narrow board, and off I go. He for months, was pushing me into waves, because I don't know, to this day, I think the hardest thing in surfing is knowing where to sit and when to turn. It's just like I barely understand it, and when I'm out there and I'm with experienced surfers and they turn and they catch a wave that I don't even see the wave. I'm like, what are they turning for? And then not only that, they turn and they catch a wave that I barely can see. And they only paddle twice and I'm paddling like freaking 50, 60 times trying to get up there, it's a different world. Michael Frampton: Oh, it sure is. And you nailed it. I mean, no matter what level of surfer you are, getting into the wave or choosing the right wave and getting into it in the right spot, that's always the hardest part. Because once you're standing up, once you're standing up on the right part of the wave, surfing is really simple and quite easy. Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a mystery to me. With surfing, there are so many variables, right? I mean, there's the wave. Well, even the wave, there's the height, there's the direction, there's the speed, Are you at the peak, are you on the shoulder. That's just the wave. And then you're going to think of the wind and you got to think of the other kooks in the water and then you got to worry about, we have a ten-inch fin and it's, it's negative one tide and all the kelp is sticking out. So that's not going to work. Well I mean there's so many variables. It's such a cerebral sport. Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. Now has and if so how has surfing made your life better? Guy Kawasaki: Oh absolutely. I mean, I surf every day. In fact, today I might surf twice. And here's like a Guy Kawasaki typical kind of story. So I have Méniere's disease. Méniere's disease has three symptoms, which is, sporadic attacks of vertigo, tinnitus, which is the ringing in your ear and hearing loss and so basically, my ears are all messed up, and it's not surfer ears or anything like that because I have only been surfing ten years, so it's not from surfing. This is a pre-existing condition. So if you said to somebody if you have middle ear issues and vertigo and deafness and tinnitus and all that kind of stuff, why don't you take up ice hockey and surfing? That's the perfect sports for you. The two sports that require balance the most I took up with the bad ears, huh? Michael Frampton: Wow. So you like when someone tells you you can't do something that you see as a challenge? Guy Kawasaki: I didn't listen. I mean, people have told me that I cannot do a lot of things, and quite frankly, they were right. So it's not a matter of proving them wrong. I will just say that, like the first time I played ice hockey, and the first time I actually caught a wave and stood up, it was magic. It was like Holy shit, this is like, where else can you get this feeling? It's like magical to be standing on a wave and somehow, like, you don't have to do anything like nature is pushing you forward. In my case 12 to 15 miles an hour. I mean and you don't need a hill to do that, like skateboarding when you fall on the pavement, it's a lot different than falling in the water. So, surfing is just magic. It's the most fun I think you can have legally. Michael Frampton: I agree, and so do all of our listeners. But it's also one of the it's also one of the most challenging things that you can. I mean have you is that's a good question. Is surfing the most challenging thing you've that you do? Guy Kawasaki: It is by far the most challenging thing I have ever tried to learn to do by far because there are so many variables. There's so many external variables and then there's your internal, there's like your body weight and your body type and your hip flexibility and, it's a very complex cerebral sport and I don't think people who don't surf, they don't appreciate how difficult it is because like basketball, you run and you jump in the normal course of life, right? I mean, ice hockey is like that, too. You don't skate naturally. I mean, that's something you have to learn the fundamentals. You have to learn. So I think part of the attraction for me, for surfing is that it is so hard. If I became immediately good at it, the thrill would be gone but it's taken ten years. I like my dream. Everybody has to have a dream. Right. So my dream is to be able to take four steps and hang ten on the nose. Okay? In ten years, I'm now able to sometimes take two steps. So it's taking me five years per step. So I need another ten years to get the total of four steps. I hope I make it. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Well, Jerry Lopez says that the first 20 years of surfing is just to test if you're really interested. Guy Kawasaki: I interviewed Jerry Lopez for my podcast, I know. I listened. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Great. You did a great job. Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, it's a funny story. You'll appreciate this surfing story. So this weekend we went to a surf meet in Huntington Beach. And on the sidewalk at Huntington Beach, there's, like, the Hollywood Walk of Fame. It's only the surfing Walk of Fame. And there's these, I think, brass plaques for these famous surfers. Right. So I saw Sean Tompson's, I saw Layne Beachley, and I saw Jerry Lopez, and I happen to know all three people because of my podcast. I sent them all messages and they all responded, yeah. Sean Tompson's response was, oh, they spelled my name right. Michael Frampton: Oh, cool. I interviewed Sean a while ago for the podcast and actually see quite a couple of similarities between the book he wrote in the book you wrote is in. You chose not to make it a three-page behemoth full of fluff. And it's such a good book. It's so succinct. And it's the kind of book I'd rather spend 12 hours reading a good book three times, then 12 hours reading a long book once. Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, I hear you and one of the things I think about many nonfiction books is they take 200 to 300 pages to explain one idea. Right? So like you should you should make a prototype very quick with the minimum features and get it out there and then if it doesn't succeed, bring it back and change it fast. Well, I just explained a 300-page book about minimum viable product and pivoting. Right? I mean, what else do you need to know about that concept besides what I just explained in 10s? Michael Frampton: No, I really enjoyed your book. It's definitely one I'm going to go back and reread because it's so succinct. Guy Kawasaki: I want you to know that I am a much better writer than a surfer, just FYI. Michael Frampton: Has surfing taught you anything about other aspects of your life? Guy Kawasaki: Ah, listen, I could. I can interpret almost all of life with using a surfing metaphor. Right? So, one obvious one is you can sit out there in the water looking for that perfect wave all day and never turn and paddle and if you do that, I guarantee you will not catch any waves. Same thing applies to life, right? You can be waiting for that perfect company, that perfect product, that perfect service, that perfect co-founder, that perfect VC and you could, you know, try to make this perfect thing and then that means you will never do anything. Same thing as surfing. Another analogy I would say is that, yes, you try to pick the perfect wave and you turn it the perfect time at the perfect angle and all the perfect stuff. But I think one of the things I learned about surfing is that at some point you turn and burn and then you just need to make that decision, right? Even if it's wrong. Right? You just gotta compensate. You would like to be in the barrel on the face of the wave, but guess what? You're an idiot. You're in the white water, so make the best of it right. And that's another metaphor for life, is that, you got to make decisions, right? Michael Frampton: Yeah, you just kind of describe that in the book by saying, just plant many, many seeds because you're not you don't know which one will eventually eventuate and you catch lots of waves. that's the thing a lot. I've said before on this podcast is that when you watch, a surfing movie, you've got to realize that might only be ten minutes worth of surfing that you're watching but it took a surfer a year worth five hours a day of surfing to get those ten minutes worth of surfing. Guy Kawasaki: Yea. You can apply that to almost everything in YouTube, right? So on the YouTube when they show this is a guy hitting half court shots, they shot him for five hours to get him making a half court shot twice. Right. He just goes out and does everyone like that? Yeah. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Michael Frampton: And surfing is a lot about sort of being in the right place at the right time and when you look at your career, I wonder how much of that's true. in your career? Guy Kawasaki: Oh, my career is more about being in the right place at the right time than it is about being in the right place because of my decision. Okay? I guarantee you that, I call this guys Golden touch, which is not whatever I touch turns to gold guys. Golden touch is whatever is gold guy touches. Michael Frampton: I like that. Guy Kawasaki: So, this is the equivalent of that in a surfing metaphor is sometimes and it's happened to me. Sometimes you just expect to get clobbered, right? And so you turn your back to the wave and you lean back because you're about to get clobbered. And somehow the wave catches you and you get a ride without even trying to get the ride. Yeah, I'm telling you, a lot of people join companies that they had no freaking idea what it was going to do, and they turned out to be millionaires. Like, I don't know, what's this company Google do? I don't know, they needed a facilities manager and I didn't have a job, so I went to work for Google. I was the first Google facilities manager and now come to find out, my stock is worth $50 million. Yeah. I'm so smart now. There have been waves I guarantee you, Michael. There have been waves that I caught that I didn't intend to catch. Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Michael Frampton: That happens all the time. And then you sort of, you turn up to the beach and without even knowing it's going to be good and it happens to be good. There's, there's luck involved in everything. Guy Kawasaki: Yeah. Michael Frampton: How do you define luck? Guy Kawasaki: I think luck is, getting back to seeds. Luck is planting a lot of seeds, right? I mean, you don't get lucky by staying on the sand. You get lucky by being in the water. You got to plant a lot of seeds and then, even if you're lucky, you have to take advantage of that luck. So you can't be a dumbass. You can't be a lazy schmuck and luck comes upon you and everything just is automatic. Even being lucky, you need to work hard. You need to be prepared. You need to be ready. If your board is not waxed and you're not sitting in the water. Yeah, you could be the most lucky guy in the world. You're still not going to catch the wave Michael Frampton: Yeah. And you have to be sort of looking for those opportunities as well, don't you? Michael Frampton: Yeah, I remember reading a book about luck and they did a test where they left a $20 bill sort of in the corner next to a sidewalk. And 95% of people just walk straight past. But then the person that noticed it considered themselves lucky, but really they were sort of open to or just being observant and looking for those opportunities. Guy Kawasaki: So you're saying those people saw it and didn't pick it up or they didn't see it at all? Michael Frampton: They didn't notice it? Yeah. Guy Kawasaki: Wow. Michael Frampton: That wasn't directly in the middle of the sidewalk. Obviously, everyone would see it. But, the corner of it's just sticking out and if you consider yourself a lucky person, then your peripheral vision is actually more likely to pick up on little things like that. Guy Kawasaki: I hate to tell you, but this is, it's a related story, not necessarily the same story, but I'll tell you something to this day. If I were walking down the street and I saw a penny on the ground, I would pick up the penny, I really would. I think that a penny doesn't make a lot of difference to anybody, but. Okay. But it's just the principle that you should never leave money. Michael Frampton: Yeah. No, I like that. That's a good metaphor, too. Like, if you're surfing in a crowd and a wave comes your way and it's. You probably should just take it rather than wait for the next one. Guy Kawasaki: Well, I have to say that, being deaf, I have a cochlear implant that's like, we can do this interview, but you can't wear a cochlear implant in the water. So being deaf in the water, there are some advantages to that. So like number one, Jerry Lopez says you should never be talking in the lineup. You should always be focused on surfing. Well, I hardly talk in the lineup because I cannot hear. So there's no sense talking, so that helps. And then let's just say that like every other kook in Santa Cruz, I drop in on people, okay? And then when they yell at me, I cannot hear. It doesn't bother me at all. They can yell all they want. I don't even hear. Michael Frampton: Interesting. I wonder, do you think that there could be an advantage? Because then, you know it is an advantage. Guy Kawasaki: Yeah. Because like, if I heard the person yelling at me and telling me to go f myself, then it would get in my head and I'd be pissed off and there'd be an argument. And who knows where that would lead? But now I just like, I'm deaf. I literally people have been like, jabbering at me and I said I'm deaf. I don't know what you're saying. I just paddle away. So if anybody's listening to this from Santa Cruz and you yell at me and I ignore you, that's what's happening. Michael Frampton: Do you sometimes purposely take it out, when you're doing other things to increase your focus? Guy Kawasaki: Oh, my implant? Michael Frampton: Yeah. Guy Kawasaki: No, i am blessed with a form of OCD that when I get focused on something, whether it's writing or editing or, anything like that. I can be anywhere. I can be in the middle seat of Southwest Airlines in row 35, and I can concentrate. It's not a matter of what I hear, so I never have to do that. Ijust lose touch with reality. It's the same thing when I speak, I have gone on stage with a migraine headache. I've gone on stage feeling sick but it just takes over me. And I'm just, like, in a zone. Deshaun Thompson zone. Michael Frampton: Have you always been like that or is that something that you've had to work on and foster? Guy Kawasaki: I can't remember. I think it just comes with repetition. I don't think I was born like that. I don't think anybody is born like that, but I certainly have it now. Michael Frampton: Is there a bigger picture behind that though? Like, is there a driving force that sort of allows you, to keep trudging forward? Guy Kawasaki: Well, for a while, I have four kids, so for the longest time my motivation was four tuitions. Now, as of next week, only one tuition will be in play, so that has reduced the pressure. But I guess I am just driven. I have a high need for achievement. Like this podcast, I do 52 episodes a year with no revenue, Guy Kawasaki: On paper you'd have to say, Guy, why do you do that? Why do you kill yourself doing a podcast? And I'm just driven. It's just driven by achievement. And in a sense, the same thing applies for surfing. For me, I do a lot of dry land training and stuff because I'm 60. I got to catch up, right? So I can't just get out there and automatically assume everything's going to work. So, the secret to my success in life, surfing, or to the extent that I am successful in surfing, the secret to my life is grit. I am willing to outwork anybody. Michael Frampton: There's also if you're doing dry land training, then there's a lot of podcasts as well. There's a lot of preparation that goes into that. Guy Kawasaki: Yep. Nobody can out-prep me. Michael Frampton: Oh, okay. Michael Frampton: I'm interested to know what does your dryland training for surfing look like? Guy Kawasaki: Oh, okay. I could do even more, but, I practiced pop-ups. I'm trying to constantly increase flexibility. I do more than anybody I know, but I know I could do so much more. It's just that in the last year or so, this book has just taken over my life, too. But, I'm telling you, I am going to hang ten. I'm going to hang ten and then I'm going to drop dead right after that and everything will be fine. Michael Frampton: Oh, funny. Guy Kawasaki: They're just going to get, I've seen them take dead bodies off the beach at Jax and the fire department comes and they put you in a little one of those. Is it a sleigh? What do they call it? One of those baskets. They bring the dead body up from the cliff in a basket, that's all. They're going to take me out of Jax, okay? Michael Frampton: You're die-happy then? Michael Frampton: Death on the nose. Yeah. Guy Kawasaki: He was so shocked. He hung ten. He had a stroke and died. Michael Frampton: Yeah, well. Michael Frampton: You get the right wave, get the right board. You'll get there for sure. It's a good goal. Guy Kawasaki: I have to tell you, though, it's much more likely that I, apparently hit my head on the ground and drowned then I hang ten on my last ride. Michael Frampton: Oh, I've got a feeling that you'll get there. Guy Kawasaki: Well, yeah, I hope so. Michael Frampton: So out of all you've done so many podcast episodes, like over 200, is there any is there any commonalities between all of these guests? Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in a sense, the commonality with 250 episodes reduced to. Yeah, that's 5000 pages of transcripts, so that 5000 pages of transcripts has come down to 170 pages in a book. There's a lot of commonality and the lessons of the book reflect the commonality and at the highest level, the commonality is that to be remarkable, you need to have a growth mindset. You need to be willing to pay the price and be greedy and finally, you need to be gracious to be remarkable and that just happens over and over again with those 250 guests. Michael Frampton: How do you how do you define grit? Guy Kawasaki: Grit is the ability to do something when you are not necessarily getting positive results and nor do you necessarily enjoy it, but you just are willing to pay the price. Michael Frampton: So, is there an element of faith or hope that goes with that? or delusion? Michael Frampton: In my case, it's a delusion with surfing. Guy Kawasaki: But you know what? One thing I figured out is it doesn't matter why you're gritty. It's just that you're gritty. You could be stubborn. You could be OCD, you could be delusional. You could be whatever. But as long as you just keep putting it out, that's all that matters. Michael Frampton: Okay, and then grace, how do you define grace? Guy Kawasaki: Grace is when you come to this realization that you are successful in life, and you are fortunate because there are teachers and coaches and mentors and bosses. There are people who opened the door for you and because somebody opened the door for you, you should open the door for somebody else. So it's a sense of moral obligation to the world to pay back society. Michael Frampton: Okay, how would you define grace in the surfing world? Guy Kawasaki: I could. Okay, I yeah. I could tell you some really great stories here. So at 38, there are some surfers who are really quite good. I would love to be as good as them. And they are so good that they can catch a wave and they can surf the whole face. They can catch it in front of Jack's house, and they could go all the way to like Purves or to like practically the hook, right? They can take the face the whole way, and some of them do and you know what? When you're at Jack's and there's a lot of beginners and novices, there are lots of people who are going to catch the wave and get in your way on the face and that's just the way it is at Jax. Jax is for kooks and beginners, right and so these really good surfers, they can take the whole face and they get really pissed off with people and they yell at people and they scream and they push people off and all that, and I just don't understand that and believe me, I've been one of those people who've been pushed and yelled at and what I don't understand is like, okay, if you are so freaking good, go to first or second or go to the hook, but you're just trying to be a big dog in this little shit pond. Guy Kawasaki: So like, what is your problem? and like, everybody's out there, they're just trying to have a good time, learn how to surf, catch a few waves. So like what? Why are you being such an asshole? Then it's like, Guess what? There's nobody from the WSL sitting up on the East cliff looking for people for the WSL. So I hate to tell you, I can drop in on your face and I'm not going to affect your professional surfing career, so just shut up and go to second or first. That's my attitude. They completely lack grace and I have a theory that the better you are, the more gracious you are. It's the middle ground, right? So when you're really a beginner and lousy, you don't know what the hell you're doing. When you get kind of good, that's when you figure, I'm the big dog. I can get the face, I can hang ten, I can do cutbacks and all that. But then when you get really, really good, you say, I want to help other people enjoy surfing. And I'm going to help them and coach them and encourage them. You don't yell at them. The really good surfers don't yell at you. Michael Frampton: Yeah, I love that definition and I totally agree. Yep. Joel Tudor is famous for saying that the ultimate goal is Skip Frye. Guy Kawasaki: Skip Frye was like that? Michael Frampton: He still is. Michael Frampton: He's still out there surfing every day. He's in his 80s and he just glides gracefully along on his. Guy Kawasaki: But does he yell at somebody if a kook dropped in on him? No. Michael Frampton: No, of course not. Michael Frampton: He's been surfing so long that you just wouldn't. I think sometimes surfers also, I think a graceful surfer has the sort of demeanor about them that just you would feel bad dropping in on them because they're so graceful and they're not taking every wave. Does that sort of make? Yeah. Michael Frampton: But if you're out there trying to take every wave and yelling at people, you're actually more likely to get dropped in on again and again and again. So thank you. Thank you CCTV. Guy Kawasaki: Oh, God. Michael Frampton: I think part of this is a lot of those people, they surfed, 20, 30 years ago when there just was one-tenth of the amount of people in the water, and they kind of expect it to be like that still, even though you're right, you're right. They can go for it. They can drive half an hour and go somewhere else where it's more difficult and where there are less people. Guy Kawasaki: Half an hour, they could paddle 500 yards to the right and they could be someplace else like that, but I think a lot of those people, they realize that, at Jax, they stand out, but if they went to first or second, they would be at the bottom of the pile again. Right? And they would be yelled at not doing the yelling and they cannot adjust to that. Michael Frampton: So yeah, that doesn't feed their ego. Guy Kawasaki: Yeah. The second peak is my Mavericks. Michael Frampton: That's. yup, Okay. Michael Frampton: So that's Grace, and well, I quite like how you've defined compassion as a combination of empathy and grit. I really liked that definition. Can you speak a bit more on that? Guy Kawasaki: Well, the empathy part is easy, right? I mean, when you think of compassionate people, they can empathize. They can feel what you're feeling. They can understand, they can relate right, but the difference between empathy and compassion, I think, is that you want to go from empathy to compassion, which is the higher level. It means that you not only feel for the other person, you're actually do something. So a compassionate person does something and an empathetic person just feels something and that's the difference. Michael Frampton: Yeah. That's. So it comes back to doing again. Guy Kawasaki: Yep. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Guy Kawasaki: That's a recurrent theme in my books. Michael Frampton: Yeah. And I also really liked your Ikigai. You sort of, I like how you reframed that. Michael Frampton: Sort of do what you love, right? Michael Frampton: And then be willing to improve to go push through the shit sandwich to improve, but also to not expect to get paid for it. Guy Kawasaki: Well, see, I think that, now listen. I am Japanese American, but I don't want to give you the impression that I spent 20 years studying with Buddhist monks, and I truly understand Japanese and all that because I'm just as American as Donald Trump Jr. But I'll tell you something that lots of people define Ikigai as you draw three circles, which is what you love to do, what you're good at doing, and what you can get paid at, and in the middle of those three is what your ikigai should be, because you can get paid, you like it, and you're good at it. I disagree with that definition. My definition is that Ikigai means that you are not good at it. You cannot get paid at it, and you may hate it because you're not good and not getting paid at it, but you still do it, and that for me is surfing, right? I'm not good at it. I love doing it. Sometimes I hate it and I'm never going to get paid for it. So if you're under those conditions, if you still surf every day, you could probably bet that it's your Ikigai or something you truly, truly love, because it's not because it's the money. It's not because it's easy. It's only because you love it. Michael Frampton: Yeah I really like that it's a good twist on, because I was very aware of Ikigai. I think everyone is nowadays. It's become quite part of pop culture, but it was a really good reframing. I really liked that. Allan Langer. Guy Kawasaki: The psychologist. Michael Frampton: Yes. How did she change your perspective on things? Guy Kawasaki: Okay, so Ellen Langer. She made a brilliant observation to me that we spend so much time trying to make the right decision, but what we should do is make our decisions right, and going back to that surfing analogy. So, yeah, spend your whole life or the whole session in the water trying to make the right decision, but what you should really do is turn and burn and make that decision right, which means that you can compensate by turning the board or paddling harder or softer or, popping up, fading and then going right, or who knows, right? But Ellen Langer is all about, yes, take your best shot but then make your decision, right, and I think that is a very good prescription for how to lead a remarkable life. You've got to make your decisions right. Michael Frampton: Do you mean by that, as in, once you've made a decision to accept it and sort of trust that, it is right? Guy Kawasaki: Well, I don't know about trust, but, I think the reality is that you never can make the exact perfect decision because the future is unknowable and there's so many variables. So I'm not saying that if you got married to somebody and that person is physically abusive? I'm not saying stick in the marriage and make the decision right? Okay. There are some things. There are limits to these things right, but to think that the grass is always greener and to think that, perfection lies in the next wave, not this one. I think that's suboptimal. At some point, you just got to make it right. Michael Frampton: Yeah, so it's kind of about being present really. Guy Kawasaki: Yes. Yes. Michael Frampton: Yeah, interesting. Is meditation part of your life? Guy Kawasaki: No, no. Like, Marc Benioff in his interview talked about meditation and all that. I don't have time for meditation, right? I'm a doer. I'm not a meditator. What can I say? Hmm. Maybe I should meditate more. Maybe I could hang ten. Michael Frampton: I would argue that you said yourself, earlier that even in the middle seat, in cattle class on an airplane, you have the ability to focus on something. Michael Frampton: Yes, Most people meditate in order to get more of that, I think. Guy Kawasaki: Well, then I was born with it. Michael Frampton: Yeah. You're lucky. I see the statue in the background and is Buddhism part of your life? Guy Kawasaki: No, it's just I am in a closet that I've made into a sound studio, and I wanted to have an interesting background. So, I have tried dozens of things I like. I have this lamp, I have this fake flower. I have fake flowers. I have the lamp, I have bamboo, I have vases, I've tried all kinds of stuff. Yeah, I'm constantly experimenting to get, like, you have that surfboard back there, but I don't have space for a surfboard. Michael Frampton: So you're a little bit of an interior designer. Guy Kawasaki: You know what? I don't want to tell you how many hours I have spent trying to make a good background, putting all this soundproof foam, getting this stuff here, like, it would probably be measured in days, in days. Michael Frampton: Oh, no. It's a good thing. I think it looks good and, your voice is coming across with no echo. So, well done. Guy Kawasaki: Well, I once spent a few weeks trying to make sure that the video and audio were perfectly synced because I was getting a case where the audio was about two frames behind the video, and the way you test that is you do something like you clap and you see when your hands hit, and then you look and you see if there's a spike of the clap matching that exact moment right, and it wasn't. It was two frames off, and that just freaking drove me crazy, and then finally I found something that you can add frames of delay for the video or, I don't know, vice versa, whatever it was. Yeah, I'm a little nuts that way. Michael Frampton: Oh, you got to get that sort of stuff right though I think it does matter. Is that sort of a bit of a perfectionism that you speak about there? Guy Kawasaki: A bit. I'd say there's a freaking wheelbarrow full. Michael Frampton: If there was one message that you hoped someone got out of your most recent book. What is that? Guy Kawasaki: I hope people realize that it's not about deciding you want to be remarkable. The way it works is you make a difference. You make the world a better place. And if you make the world a better place, then people will believe you are remarkable. So it's not a which came first. It's just an order. You make the world a better place. People will think you're remarkable. So the focus not on being remarkable as much as making a difference. Michael Frampton: I love that. Guy. Thank you so much. Congratulations on. Guy Kawasaki: I might go surfing a second session. Michael Frampton: Awesome. Guy Kawasaki: Thank you. Michael Frampton: I'll have links to all of, everything of Guy in the show notes. Uh, thanks for tuning in, everyone. Guy Kawasaki: All right. Thank you very much for having me. All the best to you. Michael Frampton: All right. Thank you. Guy. Awesome. Really appreciate your time. Thank you. Bye bye. Guy Kawasaki on the Surf Mastery Podcast Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Be5RXXCOZG8?si=rEENemCzY9C0b2NK…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
96 Nic Laidlaw - From Hawaii to Home: How the Ocean Connected Me to My True Self

36 weeks yang lalu

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Nic Laidlaw is a holistic exercise and lifestyle coach, a ridiculously good surfer, a father, and a man full of wisdom. We discuss health and wellness, Paul Chek, leadership, parenting, connecting with nature, injury recovery, health retreats, mentors, masculinity, big wave surfing as an initiation to manhood. Plus much more. Nic's website: https://www.balancedstudio.com.au Nic's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/balancedstudio/?hl=en Nic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzvueZRjFkiDFuk1Ial0Oqg Key Points: * Drawing parallels between surfing and life challenges * Embracing imperfection and overcoming personal struggles just as one tackles waves * Appreciating the complexity of surfing and the importance of nuanced thinking * Finding balance in life, similar to striving for balance on a surfboard * Modeling positive behavior on and off the surfboard for children * Practicing patience in surfing and allowing oneself and children to explore the waves at their own pace * Instilling a love for nature in kids through surfing experiences Quotes: * "Navigating the waves of life is like riding the waves of the ocean" * "Just like every wave is different, every challenge in life is unique" * "The surfboard is not just a tool for riding waves; it's a metaphor for balancing life's highs and lows" Takeaways: * Embrace the unpredictable nature of surfing and life * Strive for balance in the face of challenges, both on and off the board * Serve as a positive role model for children, showing them how to navigate the highs and lows * Foster a deep connection to nature through the exhilarating experience of surfing. Nic Laidlaw Surf Mastery Podcast…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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95 Oscar Hetherington - Award Winning Surf Photographer

47 weeks yang lalu

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The Journey from Passionate Amateur to Award-Winning Surf Photographer, Oscar Hetherington. Coming from a family that enjoyed beach holidays, he was instantly hooked on catching waves. In addition to surfing, he also took up photography to document sessions with friends. He began honing his skills by shooting local competitions and events featuring the surfing community. For years, he worked to steadily build his portfolio and improve through shooting. All of his hard work finally paid off when he won an award from the prestigious Follow the Light Foundation for his surf photography. This major accomplishment opened new doors, like assisting professional surfers on international shoots. Oscar is based in Hawkes Bay New Zealand Website: https://www.oscarhetheringtonvisuals.com Insta: https://www.instagram.com/oscar.hetherington/?hl=en Music: Original by Joe Cole. Check out Joe: https://www.instagram.com/joecolemusic/ https://open.spotify.com/artist/5TjI5d408YMuLi17W0OP9B…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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94 Iain "Ratso" Buchanan - The Eternal Grom

1 year yang lalu

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Iain "Ratso" Buchanan discusses his lifelong passion for surfing and insights from his experiences in the surf industry and WSL tour. Iain's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ratsonz/?hl=en Surf Shop: https://lionrocksurfshop.com Music: Fernweh by Nachur

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
93 Kassia Meador

1 year yang lalu

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Kassia Meador pic: @ez.rivero Kassia Meador shares insights from her experiance as a pro surfer and recreational surfer. What surfing means to her and how she continues to evolve in and out of the water. Kassia embodies education and inspiration for surfers through her brand, courses, and retreats. From chatting about challenging waves to overcoming head traumas, this episode gets real about the highs and lows of surfing life. We even get into alternative therapies like sound baths. https://kassiasurf.com/ (use discount 'surfmasterylove' at checkout for 25% off) Retreats: https://www.saltysensations.com/ https://kassiasurf.com/pages/retreats Course: (use discount code 'Welcome10' for 10% off) Definitive Guide to Longboarding 3.0 Kassia's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kassiasurf/?hl=en Surf Mastery website: https://surfmastery.com/…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
92 Andrew Gelles - Concrete to Crest 1:06:39

1 year yang lalu1:06:39

1:06:39

In just over a year Andrew was surfing Pipeline. Andrew discusses his transition from skateboarding to surfing, sharing insights from trips to El Salvador and Hawaii. They delve into the dangers of surfing, emphasizing the importance of taking it slow and respecting the waves. The conversation covers personal well-being, worst surfing advice, and the unique dynamics of Andrew's Brooklyn skate park. The hosts also explore the pros and cons of using a carver skateboard and share humorous anecdotes about challenging surf conditions. The podcast concludes with reflections on the changing skate industry and the need for affordable skate parks. Throughout, the hosts infuse the discussion with camaraderie, providing an entertaining blend of nostalgia, insight, and humor. https://www.instagram.com/andrewhgelles/?hl=en https://substanceskatepark.com https://www.rosdiner.com…

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

1
91 Rob Case - Paddling Coach 1:59:32

1 year yang lalu1:59:32

1:59:32

This episode of "The Surf Mastery Podcast," hosts Rob Case. Rob and Michael reconnect after a hiatus and delve into their personal struggles, the well-being of their children, and their profound love for surfing. They explore a range of surfing-related topics, including the importance of mastering techniques like the pop-up and strategic wave-catching. They discuss surf trip challenges, their vision for professional surfing, their frustrations with the World Surf League (WSL), and the significance of surf culture and etiquette. The conversation also touches on family-friendly surf trips, wave pools, and diverse surfboard choices, concluding with their shared enthusiasm for surfing and aspirations to collaborate on surfing education. The episode offers a deep dive into the world of surfing, teaching, and the broader surf culture, covering everything from fundamental skills to the future of professional surfing and the importance of the surfing community. Episode 12 with Rob: Spotify Apple Rob's Website: https://www.surfingpaddling.com/ https://surfmastery.com/…

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