Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff: Trump's Immigration Policies Are Indefensible

The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie

In late 2017, in the name of "zero tolerance," President Donald Trump introduced a policy of separating parents and children who crossed the Southern border and requested asylum in the United States. In all, an estimated 5,500 children were taken from their parents and many were held in detention facilities, some of which had been constructed by the Obama administration. Over 1,000 children are still unaccounted for by the federal government. The policy ended in 2018 after massive public outcry. The zero tolerance policy is the subject of Separated, a new documentary by Academy Award–winning filmmaker Errol Morris. It has aired on MSNBC and will be available for streaming on December 17.

Reason's Nick Gillespie talks with Morris and journalist Jacob Soboroff, whose book on the controversy inspired the film. They discuss how family separation became policy and whether it acted as a deterrent, America's long and ambivalent relationship with legal and illegal immigration, and what Trump's second term will mean for immigration policy.

0:00- Introduction

2:15- Trump's 'zero-tolerance' immigration policy

5:33- Jacob Soboroff's book

9:33- Who was really behind the child separation policy?

13:09- State-created orphans and the asylum process

15:04- Immigration policies through U.S. history

18:31- American attitudes towards immigration v implemented policies

21:21- Ad: ZBiotics

23:07- Anti-immigration rhetoric escalated during the 2024 election

29:15- 'Border Czar' Tom Homan

32:15- Stephen Miller, Elaine Duke & Kirsten Nielsen

37:35- Nielsen's replacement, Kristi Noem

39:42- The Dunning-Kruger administration?

40:57- Expertise vs. disruption

44:43- How to change attitudes toward immigration

Previous appearances:

• "Errol Morris on Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Theranos, and Cancel Culture," November 8, 2019
• "Errol Morris on Donald Rumsfeld, The Unknown Known, and Evidence-Based Journalism," April 12, 2014

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