MMT50 - 216

Meeting Malkmus - a Pavement podcast

This week Steve West calls in to chat with jD about a variety of things including song # 16

Transcript:

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[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. There you have it. Song number 17 is Zurich is Stained from the debut long play Slanted and Enchanted. Mike, is this song in fact slanted and or enchanted? Discuss. Yes, indeed. I love this song. This song, it really is. And it's sort of an oasis. I love where it appears on the record. it's coming straight out of the chaos of uh conduit for sale and right before the chaos of chelsea's little wrists and you get this like really light breezy but fast song i mean it's not a ballad it's not like here it is it is this breezy light almost feels like it would be, at home on the Velvet Underground's third record. Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement.

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[1:03] And you're listening to The Countdown. Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and a motorcycle and sidecar driven by an orangutan. How will your favorite song fare in the rankings? You'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week, we're joined by Pavement superfan. No, wait a minute. Pavement superstar, Steve fucking West. Westy, how the fuck are you? I'm doing pretty good today. Yes. It's a good day, right? Yeah. Good day. Well, let's get right into it. Everybody else has been coming on and talking about their pavement origin story. I feel like that's sort of a strange thing because we've talked about it a little bit in the past. But I'm curious what it was like for you, I don't know, getting the call or getting the letter or whatever it was, the communication, the telephone call or whatever, that they were looking to fill Gary's role or like how that looked like. What what did that look like on your end?

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[2:25] Well, it was kind of a long process of, you know, knowing Bob from high school and then being in Manhattan and Brooklyn and meeting Stephen and Bob and David. And then knowing that they were having difficulties kind of with with Gary.

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[2:46] I can't say that I didn't know that it might be coming. And there was a phone call, like you said. But um i didn't really you know you know it kind of blew me away when it when it happened i think it was on a pay phone in manhattan and i was working at a um at a gallery helping to put up some artwork for leo castelli oh wow and i talked to steven and he was like i don't know man just put those drumsticks in the oven and keep them worn because i don't know what it's going to happen. So, you know, he was, he was giving me a heads up, but he wasn't promising me anything and understandable because, you know, the things were up and down with Gary. And so, and then, uh, I really, when it actually happened, I don't really remember any other phone call where it was because we, Steven and I would see each other quite a lot. And we lived in Brooklyn and, And we would hang out together when he wasn't on tour.

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[3:56] And, you know, we play music together with David. When Bobby wasn't around, we were I kind of sat in as a drummer for them for the Silver Dudes and those little jam sessions we'd have in Brooklyn. So that kind of was the thing that kind of eased me into the whole playing music with with Stephen as well as with David. Wow and I had a loft in Brooklyn on 1st and 1st I think it was.

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[4:31] South fifth. And it was a really crappy loft and it had, you know, we can make a lot of noise and it was right next to the Williamsburg bridge. And yep. And there was a tiny room in the back that Steven and I rehearsed, all those crooked rain songs when, you know, Gary had broken up and I guess I had joined the band and then we were like there jamming he was kind of introducing me to those songs in this room you know smaller than the bedroom that you have right there it was a small room it was like 10 by 10 not even probably, and uh i remember the guys upstairs complaining and banging on the ceiling and i was like come on this is a loft this is what you do in brooklyn this is what you're here you're an artist and you're musicians, and you make noise. You get a loft, and you make art, and you make noise. Totally. Yeah, we rehearsed those a few times, and then went in to record in Manhattan.

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[5:41] Wow. That's pretty whirlwind, too, then, right? Yeah, I mean, it happened over a couple of months, but over a summer, that summer of, I guess, 93, um spring when i think gary quit i'm not hard for me to remember all the logistics of that's that's cool that's cool this isn't uh uh that kind of podcast where we you know get too into the weeds yeah yeah so what do you remember about um like a first show or when did you meet the rest of the guys like you were you were jamming with steve and you guys were coming up with crooked rain stuff and you were you know laying down drums for it in manhattan at the um, at that uh oh my gosh i forget the name of it right now but that uh pseudo studio, right while i recorded that that's right yeah that's right um yes so i think what happened was that spring before we recorded Crooked Rain um.

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[6:54] There was a Drag City Invitational, and it might have been late spring, early summer. And we drove out to Chicago and played that. And that was the first time I played with the full group.

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[7:13] I played with Steven and his girlfriend, Alexa, and maybe Mark. And we played at a show in New York City for a matador like in reunion or something like that show but that wasn't really pavement and we just played new songs or whatever I don't know what it was but the first pavement show was at the drag city thing drag city invitational um it was at a club that was across the street from where Dillinger was uh captured caught shot and captured um in Chicago and uh you know a lot of great bands on Drag City were there and Silver Juice played and um I guess uh Royal Trucks played as.

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[8:01] Well and they recorded those stood a bit of it in the basement and um I remember playing that show and we had never practiced so it was just kind of like guessing really about everything yeah I don't think we practiced at all no we just went out there and played it and i had played you know the some some of the songs with steven but you know the crooked rain songs but the old songs we had never played all together so i just had to kind of they knew them and i had to you know make sure i kind of knew them and we got through it was a short set but it was good yeah that's pretty cool that's that's pretty cool it would be a cool.

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[8:43] Ticket stub to own for the, you know, the first complete Pavement Band show, you know? Yeah.

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[8:53] So you getting your hands dirty with Crooked Rain, does that tend to be the record that you would go back to if you were the type of person to listen to your own content? I don't know if you do. Like, I don't know if you, you know, listen to records that you've been on or whether you, you know, sort of avoid it. Like, I don't listen to very many of these podcasts, for example, just because, you know, they're done. They're done. They're done. Exactly. Like, I got their history. Yeah. What is that like with you with records? Is there one that you go back to that you're really proud of or anything like that?

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[9:30] No, I mean, technically, I just go back to listen to practice to them. So I'm prepared for whatever's coming ahead. But, you know, each one has different memories for me. And of course, Crooked Rain was this fresh guy trying to figure out how to play with Stephen as well as with the whole band live as well as the recording. Recording um and uh wowie dowie would probably be more of a band thing where i would be like that was nostalgic was a really fun recording session in memphis and everything so but you know they're all different and they all have good and bad memories so i don't go back to them to listen that way i'm not that old yet.

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[10:24] But when i go to practice to him i try to practice to like our live stuff that we did this past year right as well as um the rehearsals that we did in portland and i have all like the hard drives of the breakdown of the songs and you know the tracks and everything so, i'm probably more prepared for what could be thrown at me as you know how we play the songs live as a as a six piece and how we record them over the years in different setups so right it's two different ways of you know being prepared for all the things to be thrown at you yeah i suppose so like i mean was this was this tour like the well i call it this tour but the 2022 tour was that the most you guys had rehearsed like for uh for a series of shows before.

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[11:17] I think so. I mean, the 2010, I think we practiced about five or five to eight times. But this time was a much better environment. And I think we practiced at least 10 or 12 days to prepare for that Fonda show in, I guess it was L.A. Which was great. I was on that one. That was fantastic. That was fun. and we all worked really hard to you know learn a whole lot of songs and be prepared how many did you take on the road um i think it was around 60 jeez yeah 60 songs that we could somehow pull out you know yeah and do that's a lot that's a lot of songs yeah and i mean you You guys were playing like 25, 26 songs a night. So like Toronto shows, for example, I saw it back to back and it was like, they weren't completely different set lists, but it really kept it interesting, you know, to see you guys multiple times because you had this.

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[12:26] You had this log of, of songs that you could just carry around. Right. And Bobby is the master of doing that. He keeps track of everything and really works hard at making the set list different every night, as well as having the standards that you should be playing, but not having those standards be the same standard every night. Yeah yeah i'll tell you what doing this top 50 countdown what i did was i asked people to send in their top 20 lists and when i when i did all the math there was 121 different songs that were chosen so obviously i'm only counting the 50 but there's that many songs in your catalog that people fucking dig like that's you know that's got to be daunting in a certain way when you know There's B-sides and things like that that you guys might not have even played once outside of recording. Yeah, recording. Yeah.

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[13:27] Okay, so what do you say we give song number 16 a spin, Steve? That sounds great to me. All right, let's do it. We'll be back on the other side. Hey, this is Bob Nestanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening. And now on with a countdown. 16 now.

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[20:31] Fillmore Jive, number 16 on the countdown.

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[20:35] It's the third song from Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, behind Stop Breathing at 28 and Cut Your Hair at 21. So this song actually beats Cut Your Hair, which is, I don't know. Is that surprising? Is that surprising to you? No, I'd rather pick Fillmore Jive over Cut Your Hair. But, I mean, Cut Your Hair is the pop song. So yeah yeah that's why i was surprised it wouldn't be in the top five or something i was you know just looking at the spotify uh the spotify plays you know cut your hair is like way up there and bill more jive is not right right so is is it do you consider it like a deep cut like when you guys went to it on the most recent tour was it um was it a deeper cut in the bag of songs that you brought? Yeah, I say a deeper cut because I don't think we did it in 2010. And we hadn't done it for years in the 90s. I think we did it in 94 and maybe they did it with Gary too before me.

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[21:51] So I would say it's a deep cut live but in terms of records records you know for people to really enjoy but it's a pretty great number yeah pretty historic number and it really uh puts a nice end to that album yeah i think so yeah it leaves you wanting more for sure yes like in a good way you know not not like yeah okay i was like oh is that insulting thing um what.

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[22:24] Do you say we get back to film our job sorry i'm.

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[22:30] We recorded that, and I don't know if Stephen and I ever played that song except for when we recorded it in Manhattan at Walleye's Place. And then we played it a few times in 94, a handful of times, and didn't really play it again until this previous past couple of years. And it was always up. People loved it. Yeah, I was looking on Setlist FM, and it's like, Like, you guys played it 79 times in total, according to Setlist FM, but probably about 20 times this last tour, maybe something like that. Okay. And I got to tell you, I found it really interesting that you picked Billmore Jive, because it's the song that you're waiting a minute, almost a full minute before the drums come in. Yeah. Right? Right. And then it's that big cacophonous, you know, like I need to sleep with the with the cymbal crash. And yeah, the song really picks up steam at that point. Right now that.

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[23:39] OK, so that song, I think, is where Stephen kind of the producer or the engineer, Bryce Goggin, who. who mixed the album. We recorded it in a different place, but he mixed the album. He was giving Carl Blanc to make it as big as he wanted. Do all the tricks. Do all the production tricks. And the only thing was that there was this previous recording of the intro, like you're talking about, and I don't know if that was recorded at Bob's apartment in Hoboken or at Gary's, you know, uh, studio, um, um.

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[24:24] But they had that previous recording, which he thought was great.

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[24:28] But he wanted to have, you know, a different take for the rest of the song. So that's kind of how we did it. And he kind of, I know that if you could hear the raw track, you'd probably hear him saying, okay, now, you know, we're playing along. He's like, okay, now we're going to get really loud and get crazy. West, go crazy. And now we're going to go quiet. So there's no way I knew that song that well, well because we wouldn't have practiced it it's a long song it's yeah it's almost seven minutes right right it's a feel song and um i think he just kind of like talked me through it and it was just the two of us so there wasn't all that other you know instrumentation to play off of it was more just him talking singing and playing um and trying to get a i feel and it definitely got a feel good or bad it got a good it got a feel oh it's yeah it's got a great it's got a great feel to it i just i can remember going for walks when i discovered crooked rain like you know in 2000 or whenever it was uh i was way off the beaten track and um just walking around listening to crooked rain and it would get to that song and there was just i don't know there's just something about that cymbal crash into the into the you know the main thrust of the song and then bringing it down again you know as he's talking about the punks with spikes and and things like that yeah.

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[25:57] Just like he's kind of narrating uh narrating a music history for like a past couple decades up to that point and um you know making it kind of bringing out the history of it you know talking about the punks and the nightclubs and where he is you know it's not real you can't put your finger on it but you feel like you're being educated in a way about some weird world yeah i agree, yeah i mean doing this has been really fun because on this half you know we talk about the song and just getting people's impressions of what you know these songs are about out is fascinating is really fascinating because you know steve doesn't leave too many breadcrumb trails for you to figure things out it's it's just sort of um these cool phrases and cool little, you know vignettes almost and uh it's just really neat to hear what people think of them and i like like your take on, you know, going through a music history. That's, that's fabulous.

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[27:08] Yeah. Yeah. It was fun. Anything else you want to say about, uh, Fillmore Jive?

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[27:17] Um i love film or drive for its faults as for its um its feeling just as much, because like i said you know i don't think we did it more than once and of course you can always improve if you get a chance to take a test more than once right but you have to look at it that way i have to look at it that way and i listened to it today and i was like wow that's pretty great you know i can hear the things that i would change but um you know on my part not on okay anyone else's part but um you sometimes you just you just have to go with the flow and that's kind of what, being in pavement is and was about it's kind of going out there and and playing the songs and recording the songs and recording a lot and having a lot to throw away or to be on b-sides and um And then put the ones on the album that sound the best and live with the good and the bad, because a lot of times the mistakes are the happy mistakes. And people kind of endear themselves to that. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Happy mistakes is a good way to put it. Yeah. You got to have those happy mistakes. Yeah. Go away with a happy mistake is a great thing to feel when you hit the recorder. I didn't mean to do that, but that sounds awesome.

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[28:44] Yeah, isn't that what they say? When you mess up, you just do it again, and everybody thinks you're jamming. Yeah. Yeah, but, you know, the next time it doesn't have the same feel. And, you know, when you think about the different albums, like the last album, there was a lot of time put into making that album problem as really crisp and time oriented in time, you know, cleaned up a lot of the pavement sound. Right. And I've always said that. There's a good part to that because i really enjoy that album and the production that nigel did um, but you do miss a little bit of the soul of the band too agreed and then when you step back and you go yes but over the five or whatever albums we did they're all different and that's the difference in this album and it's still a pretty great album so i'm all all for it Yeah. So what does 24 bring you guys? You're going to South America.

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[29:55] Yes. When's the last time you played South America? 2010. We played South America. We played one or two shows. No, at least two shows there. And this time you're doing four or five, right? You were doing four shows, one big festival, and then three other cities and like three other countries and um it's like four shows in, six days or something so after that i don't know i think we're probably going to go into hibernation but and we'll see if we'll come out like the groundhog or not.

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[30:35] Well it's been awesome talking to you about film or jive and the rest uh steve you're amazing with your time that's um it really means a lot that you would do this so thanks so much well thank you jamie it's always a pleasure when i see you in person and talk to you on the phone and all of this zoom business too that's right yeah well thanks a lot talk to you soon right wash your hands.

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