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The Bible and Beyond

Early Christian Texts

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The Bible and Beyond podcast is a series of interviews with scholars who are able to unlock mysteries from extra-canonical books, forgotten scriptures, so-called 'gnostic' gospels, as well as the Bible. Host Shirley Paulson, Ph.D., and her guests explore historical and spiritual questions about Jesus, gender, women, salvation, healing, and the meaning of life. The discoveries these scholars share don’t always fit with what we've been told, but time and again they lead us toward a deeper inti ...
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An interview with Dr. Samuel Zinner Dr. Samuel Zinner describes the ancient Apocryphon (or Secret Book) of James, then, focusing on two common elements in so-called ‘gnosticism’—the meaning of the demiurge and ascending—he shows how this text does not neatly fit any category. It includes no reference to demiurge, but it does involve a lengthy and u…
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An Interview with Dr. Amy Jill Levine Amy-Jill Levine, a distinguished New Testament scholar, provides examples of Christian commentators making Jewish practices and beliefs look bad in order to make Jesus look good. A more realistic understanding of these Jewish practices helps us understand Jesus better and understand Judaism more respectfully. E…
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An Interview with John Dominic Crossan Crossan draws on Paul’s life and experience as a devoted Pharisee to understand his insights and expectations for the meaning of resurrection. Unlike the well-known ancient belief in ascension, which was reserved for the near-Godlike humans, Pharisees believed in resurrection for everyone. This was based on a …
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An Interview with Dr. April DeConick April DeConick theorizes about how gnostic ideas that emerged as a concept in antiquity keep reproducing themselves within different environments. This is one of the things that propelled religion toward its therapeutic aspect and individual relations to God. It came about during the desperate time of harsh Roma…
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An Interview with Dr. Kimberly Bauser McBrien Kimberly Bauser McBrien finds the Secret Book of James to be a humorous critique on the idea of apostolic authority. From our 21st-century perspective, it is difficult to decipher the difference between a weird or absurd tale from a clever parody on a serious subject. She argues that this late second ce…
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An Interview with Dr. Erin Galgay Walsh Macrina was born into a wealthy and historically important Christian family. Her virtuous life, devoted to Christ, was based on her ascetic ideals. That is, she rejected human pleasures and comforts in order to free herself to be fully present to Christ. The 4th century text, The Life of Macrina, which was wr…
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An Interview with Dr. Tony Burke If the Secret Gospel of Mark turns out to be authentic, it could provide important insights into early Christian thought and practices. Popular theory claims it is mere forgery, however, created and circulated due to pro-homosexual motives. Professor Tony Burke explains the origin of the text, its content, the basis…
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An Interview with Dr. David Brakke David Brakke challenges the common notion that Christians had a New Testament type of Bible by around 200. Rather, he claims, their Bible was Jewish scriptures plus a wide variety of written texts by Jesus followers used in multiple contexts. Marcion and his followers would have been the exception, since he reject…
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An interview with Dr. Sarah Parkhouse Dr. Sarah Parkhouse has made a discovery that is quite noteworthy for anyone interested in the Gospel of Mary. One of the hundreds, if not thousands, of small fragments of papyri found in the garbage dump Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, just might be a missing part of the Gospel of Mary. The fragment includes a description…
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An interview with Dr. David Litwa The strange story of Simon in the Bible illustrates the uncomfortable truth that Christianity seems to reinvent itself when it defines itself in opposition to its perceived enemies. In this biblical account, Simon (later called Simon Magus) appears to have been repenting properly from his mistake of offering to pay…
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An Interview with John Dominic Crossan John Dominic Crossan draws on his own Irish life experiences to create an image of Jesus living in an empire dominating the Jewish world of Jesus. The Roman Empire might have been perceived as “the world of civilization,” accomplishing great power and wealth. But this success came at the expense of its conquer…
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An Interview with Rabbi Evan Moffic Rabbi Evan Moffic, senior rabbi at a vibrant Reform Jewish congregation in northern Illinois, thinks Christians can understand Jesus’s words and works better – and Jews and Christians can understand each other better -- by considering the Jewish world of Jesus more fully. In this podcast interview, he explains Je…
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An interview with Dr. Susan M. (Elli) Elliott In answer to a listener’s question about how attitudes toward singleness evolved in Christianity, Dr. Elliott draws on her knowledge of family legislation that Caesar Augustus inflicted on the Romans well before Jesus’s ministry. Followers of Jesus often followed the common but conflicting Roman attitud…
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An interview with Dr. Deborah Saxon. Martyrdom in antiquity was often a painful choice. The dual powers of religion and politics made those decisions complex, but also caused a search for identity. Christians had to determine whether they would live under Roman systems, by Christian faithfulness, or by imagining a reward with Christ after martyrdom…
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An interview with Dr. James McGrath Professor James McGrath explains why you should read ancient texts outside the Bible. A knowledge of apocryphal and other noncanonical texts give more background to biblical writings. The meaning of canon itself becomes clearer in the context of the many cousin-like texts that relate to the biblical writings. McG…
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An Interview with Dr. Jeremiah Coogan Dr. Jeremiah Coogan, a scholar of ancient manuscripts, explains the significance of the recent discovery of an ancient palimpsest. That’s an ancient writing found underneath other writing that had covered it. The object we’re discussing contains the Old Syriac translation fragment of the gospel of Matthew, and …
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An interview with Dr. Jason BeDuhn. Dr. Jason BeDuhn, an expert on Manichaeism, takes us into the ancient world where Mani was a leader of early Jesus followers in the East, before the fourth century Council of Nicea. He paints an intriguing picture of Mani’s interpretation of Jesus’s teachings and how Christianity might have been different if he h…
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An Interview with Dr. Joseph Bessler. Dr. Joseph Bessler challenges and delights us with his suggestions that learning what we can about the historical Jesus contributes to the betterment of society. The surprise of the past few decades has been the revelation that our traditional teaching of Jesus has been used to silence the voices of any ‘other.…
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An interview with Dr. Arthur J. Dewey Arthur Dewey explains how the “blood curse,” based on Jesus’s trial before Pilate, has been taken out of context and turned into a false basis for blaming Jews as a whole for the death of God. The “trial” in the Gospel of Matthew (which could not have taken place historically) was based on Mark’s original criti…
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An interview with Dr. B. Brandon Scott Dr. Brandon Scott explains the complicated history of resurrection. It was not an Easter celebration during biblical times, but the hope of God’s restoration of things was handed down from Daniel and the Maccabees. Sacrifice was widespread in the ancient world, not because of sins, but as an act intended to re…
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Early Christian Texts is celebrating the 50th episode of our Bible and Beyond Podcast! We have collected snippets from ten episodes featuring several of our interviews since the podcast first aired in 2019. All fifty episodes have been quite unique and fascinating, but these ten excerpts exemplify the depth and breadth of the topics we covered — fr…
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This month Shirley interviews Perry Kea, an expert scholar on the Book of Acts. Dr. Kea explains why the objectives of the author of the Book of Acts differ from simple historical documentation. The letters of Paul provide an excellent example of such differences and illustrate why the objective of the Book of Acts is inconsistent with historical f…
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Dr. Jennifer Stollman, a Conservative Jew, surprised herself by discovering a couple of ‘game-changers’ in her reading of Paulson’s book, Illuminating the Secret Revelation of John: Catching the Light. As a self-described activist, Stollman was startled to consider an elevated sense of God that challenges traditional beliefs in the permanence of ev…
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An interview with Dr. Eric Vanden Eykel 'The Magi' of antiquity were usually religious professionals who were almost always associated with people in power, such as kings. But they were not kings themselves. Therefore Dr. Eric Vanden Eykel thinks the author of the Gospel of Matthew uses the characters of 'the magi' (instead of the shepherds who app…
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An interview with Elizabeth Schrader Polczer Elizabeth Schrader Polczer claims that there has always been controversy over Mary Magdalene’s name and birthplace. She argues that Mary Magdalene was probably not from Magdala. So the name we use to refer to her should be ‘Mary Magdalene’ and not ‘Mary of Magdala’ for both historical reasons and the fac…
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An interview with Rev. Kyndall Rae Rothaus Kyndall Rae Rothaus, a popular young female minister, tackles the ancient Mary Magdalene smear campaign as an example of the damage which can be done by mistaken assumptions. To her, it’s yet another example of the way people discredit strong women, both in the past and today. She believes that unraveling …
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Scholar Jae Han describes the ancient Manichaean Christian religion as an outsider in the minds of Roman western Christians because it originated in Persia. Manichaeans considered themselves Christian, but heresiologists called them “Manichaeans.” In the same vein, Manichaeans called Catholic Christians “Jews.” From a Western perspective, if any re…
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An interview with Eric C. Smith, PhD Eric C. Smith, a scholar of biblical studies, uses an ancient gold glass as an example of why we should expand our concepts of what we call ‘biblical.’ The Bible itself is an “assemblage” of people, history, geography, and oral traditions that contributed to the creation of some portion of the Bible. Objects of …
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An interview with Nicola Denzey Lewis Nicola Denzey Lewis helps crack the code on perplexing questions about so-called ‘Gnosticism.’ Where is it from? What is it about? Why the secrets? Her own story about how she got involved explains why it is appealing to some and unnerving to others. She explains why it was such an important part of the develop…
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A conversation between Dr. Shirley Paulson and Dr. Arthur Dewey When books like the Secret Revelation of John are not in the biblical canon, questions arise concerning their worth. The conversation between Shirley Paulson and Arthur Dewey includes reasons for the Secret Revelation of John’s extracanonical status as well as its intrinsic worth. They…
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In this interview with Dr. David Brakke, he discusses his new translation and commentary on the Gospel of Judas. The basic message is that Jesus is explaining to Judas why his own terrible sacrifice is necessary for God to set the universe right. In doing so, the author of the gospel is critiquing his contemporary Jesus-followers for their ritual p…
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An Interview with Dr. Jennifer Barry The dramatic story of Bishop John Chrysostom’s two exiles and subsequent death (in the 4th century) is tangled up with the Empress Eudoxia and her miscarriages. It was known that diseases spread the same way internal corruption spreads through communities rather quickly, so uncertainty of not knowing who is here…
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An Interview with Dr. Deborah Niederer Saxon The story of Paul and Thecla, well-known in antiquity, indicates a diversity of viewpoints about women’s roles in the early Christian years. Her resistance to the cultural norm fits with the popular attitude among Christians toward dying the “noble death,—referring to those who stood firm upon their mora…
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Dr. Brandon Scott interviews Dr. Shirley Paulson–the host of the Bible and Beyond podcast—about authoring a difficult chapter, “Jesus by Many Other Names,” in the new book, After Jesus Before Christianity: A Historical Exploration of the First Two Centuries of Jesus Movements. Paulson speaks of her love for the noncanonical texts of the second cent…
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Jesus was an educator who taught in the Greco-Roman mode the importance of morality, virtue, and goodness. Although his own trade was a carpenter, he used the better-known Greco-Roman farming parables to teach his deeper meaning. Of course, the specifics of Jesus’s education differed, but his common technique made him a recognizable teacher within …
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James McGrath, a professor at Butler University, gives credit to several ancient thinkers for wrestling with the question of God in a messy world. Referencing Irenaeus, for example, he notes that it might be this way because we need to grow and develop. The question of evil, when we try to hold to a good God, is always with us, and we now have the …
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Marcion, a popular but controversial early Christian leader, tackles the question of how to believe in a good God in the face of evil things happening. Plato introduced the idea, and other first- and second-century thinkers drew on the idea, of a ‘demiurge’ – a creator god who deals with the world. The perfect and transcendent God would never creat…
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Dr. Jason BeDuhn studies ancient Christian, Jewish, and Manichaean thinkers, and in this podcast interview, he explores their common “tipping point”—the place where all these religious groups struggled to find answers to explain a perfect God who allowed bad things to happen. All of them did so by blurring the idea of monotheism to some degree. The…
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Dr. Brandon Hawk’s new book, Apocrypha for Beginners: A Guide to Understanding and Exploring Scriptures Beyond the Bible, is an easy-to-read and indispensable book for people seeking to understand all the extracanonical writings—sometimes called apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, or deuteroncanonical writings. Although they are not in the Bible, they all r…
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Dr. Lance Jenott introduces the idea in early Christian writing that Adam was a victim, rather than the original sinner. As his ‘helper,’ Eve is Adam’s savior. Although the New Testament includes very little mention of Adam, other extracanonical texts envision another source of evil determined to make Adam submissive. Although 4th century Augustine…
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Bible readers often wonder which Mary the New Testament authors are referring to. Anna Cwikla describes the seven different Marys mentioned in the New Testament (and even more Marys in extracanonical texts). At least one of the New Testament Marys plays a prominent role in some of the books outside the Bible. Cwikla draws our attention to some clue…
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Chance Bonar thinks Christian accusations of ‘heresy’ will probably last to some degree, but the way many think about such things is changing. Branding someone a ‘heretic,’ and some theological ideas as ‘heretical’ began when different church authorities tried to preserve the status quo and maintain adherence to what they saw as original doctrine. …
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In this interview, Charles Hedrick describes how he became one of the first people to work directly with the ancient manuscripts found near Nag Hammadi, Egypt. His deep religious curiosity led him from his traditional Baptist origins to the Coptic Museum in Old Cairo. There, he worked with scholars putting fragments of the newly discovered texts to…
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Professor Janet Spittler leads us comfortably into the unfamiliar world of apocryphal texts, where we learn what happened to the apostles after the resurrection. The texts are part-history, part-entertainment, part-ethical teaching, but wholly important to our understanding of the development of Christianity. They are fascinating and multi-layered,…
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When Idan Dershowitz broke the news last week that the extremely ancient Shapira Deuteronomy Fragments (aka Shapira Scroll or Valediction of Moses) might not be forgeries, but actually authentic, Tony Burke agreed to discuss some of the public questions and concerns about it with Early Christian Texts. Dershowitz claims the manuscript could be olde…
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Robert J. Miller, New Testament scholar, discusses how it is possible for modern readers to do justice to ancient texts such as the Gospel of Matthew—at home in its own world—while still seeking valuable meaning in our twenty-first century world. Ancient prophecies did not intend to provide accurate predictions of the future but to provide hints ab…
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Samuel Zinner and Mark Mattison, translators of the Odes of Solomon, illustrate interrelated elements of Jewish and Christian thought throughout the odes. Some examples from Isaiah demonstrate new ways of thinking about the age-old debates. People often think the Odes are a praise to Jesus. But as Zinner points out, the odes are written to represen…
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Dr. Nina Livesey, a scholar on Paul and his writings in the Bible, explains what scholars think Paul must have written and what he probably didn’t write. She agrees with recent scholarly consensus that these letters hold together with common theological perspectives, concepts, and vocabulary. But she pushes a bit farther, describing how Paul’s rhet…
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Shirley Paulson asks Dr. Stephen Pattison, her PhD supervisor, to discuss how Practical Theology works in our lives today when we read ancient texts. Stephen probes the relationships we establish with tradition, texts from another era, and interpretation. The point of religious faith is to engage meaningfully with the world and to become less frigh…
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Marg Mowczko, from an evangelical church in Australia, researches the topic of egalitarianism in the Bible. She holds both a deep faith in the Bible and the essentially equal nature of men and women. She spends many hours each day answering questions about women’s roles in the church. Her primary study is about what Paul and other New Testament wri…
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