Redefining the Art of the Sale: Personal Identity and Cold Calling Mastery

Love Your Sales

Join this awesome episode with Paul M Neuberger, an expert in transformative sales strategies and cold-calling mastery. Explore the innate qualities that make a successful salesperson, the power of personal identity over professional scripts, and the revolutionary approach to cold calling that promises higher success rates. Learn why sales is more about giving than taking, and how genuine human connections can redefine your sales results. Discover the personal anecdotes and professional insights that can make the difference between a missed opportunity and a closed deal. Don't miss this enlightening conversation that challenges conventional sales wisdom and guides you toward more meaningful and effective sales practices.

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Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am so thrilled that today I am joined by Paul M Neuberger. He is an international keynote speaker, a world class sales trainer. He is an author and. Just an amazing guy all around. Uh, he's also the founder of C Suite for Christ and his mission is to make the impossible possible.

Paul, welcome to the show. Well, hi [00:02:00] Leighann. Thanks for having me. It's a real pleasure. Yeah. I am so excited, um, that you were willing to join me today and, you know, just, uh, Talk about sales and talk about honestly, as I sit here with your awesome book, yes. Um, you know, talk about how you, you know, became the cold call coach and how you have, you know, grown that to really become kind of a serial entrepreneur here in your own, right.

And become such a, a world class sales, you know, trainer and coach. Yeah, yeah, no, I really appreciate that. It's, uh, it wasn't anything I necessarily set out to do, like it wasn't like I was sitting in my room as a teenager ruminating about my future and saying, Oh, I want to teach salespeople, uh, how to be better at what they do.

Paul Neuberger: It just, I get asked the question a lot. Our sales. Are good salespeople born or are good salespeople made? And my answer is always the same. It's a [00:03:00] little bit of both. I think when I grew up, I had the certain characteristics to be good at sales. I did not know that at the time. I like being the center of attention.

I like taking risks. I like being loud. I'm a people person. Turns out that can serve you fairly well in the world of sales. And as I was kind of going through my professional career, one of the other things that I learned about me is well, too, and I don't know how else to describe this. I don't know if you've ever had experience with this.

The best example I can give is I used to be smart in a previous life. So I took a lot of like AP classes and that kind of stuff. And I was in a, I was in an AP politics class, and this was, I went to a Catholic high school. So we were talking about abortion and which is a heavy topic when you're a When you're a teenager, and I forget what the exact question was, but I'll never forget there was a, there was about 20 of us in this AP class, all 20 of us agreed with whatever the teacher said.

It's hard to have a debate with each other when all 20 agree, but because I didn't want to be a part of the crowd, I said, well, I'll take the opposite side. So it was me [00:04:00] debating 19 other people. So the one thing about me is if. A hundred people are going in one direction, even if that's the right direction, even if that makes sense, I'm going to go in the other direction.

One, because I'm going to get the whole lane to myself. And two, I'm going to suck up all the oxygen in the room. So as I realized why I've got this skill set for sales, the, the, the places that I work, the individuals that I was associated with, they would, well, here's your cold call scripts, or here's how we prospect, or here's how we sell.

And I'm looking at it and I'm going, this is, this is not the, this sucks. This sucks. What the heck. So I just started to think there's got to be a better way. And long story short, after a lot of trial and error, after a lot of risk, after a lot of beating to the, you know, going to the beat of my own drum, I stumbled across a couple of things that worked.

Hence my, uh, my career now as a sales trainer. Wow. And, you know, one, you said so many different things that I was like, wow, that, that makes a lot of, a lot of sense. Um, you know, I, [00:05:00] obviously as, as, you know, a sales professional myself, I do a lot of self reflection on what works, what doesn't work, all that kind of stuff.

Leighann Lovely: Right. But if I were to go back to, you know, You know, again, myself, when I, my younger self, I was always the loudest person in the room, always the, you know, slightly entertainer, the person who always tried to, if a situation was uncomfortable, try to figure out how to bring the room down, control that, you know, that type of thing.

I used to get in a lot of trouble because I loved to debate to the point to the extreme sometimes where even when I. I was debating the opposite of somebody. It wasn't necessarily something that I was passionately, you know, passionately believed, but it was, why do you have to believe that point of view?

Like so passionately, why can't you step outside of yourself and look at it from another point of view?

Paul Neuberger: Well, and [00:06:00] it's kind of with that, that I think, and that's part of the reason why you are where you are today. I think salespeople are just naturally curious. They're naturally inquisitive. Really good salespeople are a passion.

Pain in the rear to be around because they're always, they're always challenging things. But, but at the end of the day, you, you kind of sort of want that. And it just, just two real quick examples. One, one of the things that I think really led me to falling madly in love with cold calling. First of all, to be a good cold caller, you have to be charismatic.

You have to be energetic. You have to be all these different things. And, and quite frankly, I thought those were the things that I was. So. Cold calling naturally played to my strength. But the thing is, there's this cottage industry out there that tells you cold calling is dead. If cold calling is dead, I'm dead and I don't want to be dead.

I think I still have a lot to offer. So what I started to find is again, just pushing back. People started to accept the cold calling was dead. Why would you accept that? Maybe you're just not using the tool correctly. Maybe you've never been taught correctly. Maybe you're listening to the wrong voices. [00:07:00] So, so for me, just always been pushing coke on his dad.

I don't think so. Let, let, let, let me, let me see if there's a better way to do this. And then most recently you had talked about me with, with my association with my ministry C suite for Christ, you got this again, this notion that, well, you're supposed to separate your faith life from your work life, because if you talk about Christ and the professional setting, you're going to offend people.

They're not going to become your clients. Well, again, conventional wisdom and I'd never. Get along too well. Well, who says you can't talk about faith in the workplace? Who says you can't share the scriptures on social media? Sure. Were there a couple of clients that I lost or a couple of prospects? Of course, but I'm not for any everybody anyway, for the people that are the right clients or the right fits or the right people, they're going to respond to that.

So, so to your point, yeah, you, you should challenge everything. You should question everything. And I think the best salespeople do exactly that.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Well, and to your point, we're living in a world where. People, [00:08:00] if, if they don't, if they don't like me or they don't like my point of view, they don't like what I believe on a religious basis, they can go buy some from somebody else.

And that's absolutely fine with me. They don't have to buy from me. They don't have to. And, and again, I'm going to go back here before I get down a rabbit hole on that one, because we could talk about that one for, for three hours, but cold calling is dead. See now, first of all, I hate when people say, Oh, cold calling is dead.

Because one, yeah, I can go anywhere online, grab information, blah, blah, blah, blah, however, the most powerful thing in the world is actual communication. What you and I are doing right now, having a conversation. People buy from people they like. We all know this. Well, how can you like somebody if you're simply just finding information online and then making a decision?

Quite often we go, Oh crap, I made the wrong decision because you didn't even [00:09:00] get to know somebody prior to. And so one of the best ways for companies to start to understand who they want to buy from would be simply having a conversation. And the only way that a company is going to get into that organization is by making that first phone call.

And when I was taught to cold call, well, When I, when I wasn't taught to cold call because nobody ever sat me down and said, oh, this is the part of the business that you're going to, or the part of being a salesperson that you're not going to enjoy. I just assumed it was fun that like, oh, okay, this is going to be.

And I made it a game. I made it like how many. Phone calls can I make in order to get to my yes, right? How many and then now, how quickly can I get past the gatekeeper? Like, making different. Kind of gamifying that in my first year was probably the most fun thing for me because I guess [00:10:00] I'm, I'm apparently I'm not of the norm.

Paul Neuberger: Well, you are a little odd. I'll be the first to say that Leighann, but you know, but, but to your point, and this is a little bit, uh, and I say that with all love and affection, of course, but, but to, to take this a bit deeper, and I think what you're getting to, you know, Is what I would challenge every salesperson out there.

And I do this in my, my coaching and my consulting, but what I would challenge every salesperson to, to do is to come up, what is your personal mission statement? And, and the reason that's important is because this world is just going to, it's going to put its values on you. It's going to tell you what you should do.

It's going to tell you what you can't do. It's going to tell you these are the acceptable things in society. And if you don't have a clear mission statement and you're not rooted in your sense of identity. You're going to be blowing all over the place, which is going to lead to a high, a low quality life.

It's going to lead to burnout. It's going to lead to fatigue. It might even lead with disenfranchisement and sales, which is terrible because I think sales is one of the greatest [00:11:00] vocations or callings anybody can have. Where else can you touch so many lives? Where else can you bring so much value? Where else can you have so much fun to use your words?

So real quick, as you kind of alluded to, and I appreciate you doing that. My mission statement, very brief, is to make the impossible. Possible where coal coin, it's impossible to be good. Oh yeah. Watch this. It's impossible to, to talk about faith at the office. Oh yeah. Watch this. It's impossible to instantaneously differentiate yourself and separate yourself from all the competition.

Oh yeah. Watch this. So because I have that mission statement, I'm really rooted in my identity too. Often salespeople let their standing Determine their identity. So someday in sales, as you know, Leighann, incredibly volatile. Some days you're up and when you're up, if you're standing, if you're ID, if you're standing determines your identity, the week you're up, you think you're great.

I was born to be a salesperson. I'm Gordon Gekko on steroids. This is fantastic. Three months go by, you can't get a single appointment to save your life. Your standing is [00:12:00] low. Well, now your identity is low. I suck. I'm in the wrong field. I don't offer anything to anybody. The best salespeople don't let their standing determine their identity.

They let their identity determine their standing. I know who I am as a Christian. I know whose I am and nothing in this world, no failed cold calling, no losing of clients, no bankruptcy of businesses. Because I'm rooted in my identity, my standing is never going to change that. So I think the more salespeople really understand what their mission statement is and why they do what they do, the more success they're likely to have sooner rather than later.

Leighann Lovely: Too many salespeople think that their identity is tied to their company. And, and yes, while you're selling a product for a company, you still have to brand yourself. And when I say brand yourself, that is creating [00:13:00] your identity of who you are, who you want to be and who you, you know, are going to become.

And that does it. Evolve, but you need to, you need to create that. You need to think about it. You need to understand that at your core. And, you know, you talk about, you know, you know, God, Christ in, in the office. I very much have talked about mental health and mental health awareness in the office and being, uh, being able to have these conversations, being open about it and not, not being so uncomfortable and being, you know, shut up.

And if you are uncomfortable with it, get comfortable. It's time. It's, this is the time and we've shifted. We're no longer And I've said this in, in a previous, in a previous lifetime on an HR podcast, we're no longer robots who walk into an office and become these people that, you know, are numbers. We have to create our identities and then stay in that not just at home, but at [00:14:00] work, because it is unhealthy as human beings to pretend that we are anything other than who we are all the time.

And so for not only mental health. But for, you know, your, your whole life, your whole person, that is going to make you a wildly more successful person, especially in sales.

Paul Neuberger: Yeah. And again, I know we're reaching to our respective choirs here, but, but, but I think one of the things that you kind of, that you kind of hit on and it's a, it's a, it's a very true maxim.

It's at the core of all that I do. It's at the core of all that I teach people by people first, people don't buy companies first. They don't buy organizations first. And with cold calling specifically far too many people will go, hi, I'm Leighann. Lovely. I'm with lovely insurance. This is what we do. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I've already hung up because I don't know, I, I want to buy from somebody that I know, like, and trust, and if you're leading with the company, that's fine. But I don't buy the company first. I buy the person first. And to give you a concrete example, yeah, to talk about [00:15:00] getting real. If we want to, you know, focus on this authenticity, I don't, I don't want to pick on this guy because he's obviously crazy successful, but a guy like Grant Cardone.

I would never buy from Grant Cardone. And then the reason that is, is when you see the way that he presents himself, I mean, he's this uber rich, muscular guy. His wife is a model. Uh, he, he posts pictures on LinkedIn of her on the piano, like, like in a model pose. I'm like, who does that? He's always doing like, he's coming off of his private jet.

I can't relate to this guy. The way the guy presents himself is he's never had a problem. He's never had an issue. Uh, I can't relate to him. So I'm not going to work with him. Guy like me. I'm very similar to you. Uh, I've struggled mightily with mental health for a brief period of my time. I was suicidal. A lot of people have been down that road.

Wouldn't you rather work with somebody that has experienced that? Uh, I've fought addictions over the course of my life. The worst addiction was pornography. I just found myself being drawn into viewing that way more than I, I should have. [00:16:00] Thankfully, I've kicked that habit, but I know that there's a lot of other people that struggle with those things.

All I know is that I want to work with somebody that's a real human. I want to work with somebody who doesn't act like they're better than anybody. And if I put myself out there as somebody who has had mental health issues, who struggled with addictions and who unapologetically believes in his Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, that's going to resonate with the people that it should.

Those are the people I want to work with the people that don't. Why would I want to pretend to be somebody that I'm not? To work with them if we're not compatible.

Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. And here's the thing you are the norm, which means that you're speaking to the masses versus the very finite amount of people who resonate with somebody who is rich, who's, you know, out there, you know, doing everything that you just said, you know, with the wife on the P all of that, right.

You are the norm. I want to work with somebody who can identify with me, who still has to [00:17:00] mow my own lawn, take out my own garbage, fix my own damn. Plumbing all of that kind of stuff. I want I want somebody who understands my pains. And yes, are we at little, you know, we have different levels of of that in society, but we've.

Still experienced those different things. I can still speak to you as a human. I don't want somebody and I've trust me, Paul, I have, I've had people stand up and give these speeches of, do you want to make, you know, the kind of money where you could have a car like mine and they've got this, you know, Ferrari and I'm like, okay, you just lost me.

I don't want to hear about how you have all of these things. And if I work just a little bit harder, I can have what you have. That's not motivating me. That's just pissing me off.

Paul Neuberger: Yeah, I would agree. And I think to your point, yeah, to your point, I think more often than not, it would upset the [00:18:00] majority of the people that are out there, at least not resonate with them because the part of the reason that people hate sales is because sales is tough because you get rejection because there's so much pressure on it.

Well, there's this huge disconnect between how people live their life. And then how people sell. I mean, like when you live your life, you, you, you take time, you get to know somebody, you go slow, you find commonalities, you build rapport, you look out for each other, you, you, you support each other. And then, oh, if there's a way that we can help each other, great.

In sales. It's the exact opposite. Hi, Leighann. We've never met. I don't know what your needs are, but I'm just the guy to help it. I'm going to ram this down your throat. That's why so many people say no. That's why so many people yell at telemarketers. That's why so many people get such, I mean, even before you call it, it's like, this is icky.

This is gross. Yeah. Because in your intuition, in your gut of gut, you're a good person. And you know that this, this doesn't feel right. So. If you do it in a way that feels [00:19:00] right, that's more relational. That's more people by people first. That's more let's establish an emotional connection and then sell.

Not only does it feel better, that's what people buy. That's how people buy in your odds of success go through the roof. So let

Leighann Lovely: me ask you a question. Cause you brought up telemarketers here for a second. Why do you, why do you think that telemarketing hasn't gone away? Because I mean, I'm a sales professional, but people connect me to a telemarketer.

They, they, they like connect those dots and I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm not a telemarketer.

I guess in my head, like, as soon as I get a. Telemarketing call. I answer it and I immediately hang up. I mean, I used to try to go, hi, hi, can you stop talking first? Hi, can you stop? Okay. Click. I used to try to be non mean because I'm in a sales type role, [00:20:00] but it's gotten so bad. Well, now they're robocalls.

I mean, now they just like, and you, and you ask, are you a real person? And then they go click and they hang up on you. Why do you think that hasn't gone away? Because. Clearly it must be working on somebody. Maybe I've answered my own question.

Paul Neuberger: Yeah, I don't know. I think, I think part of it is if you look at any organization that is doing tele, the two, two thoughts I have on this one is if you look at any organization that's doing telemarketing, that that is not the aspect of their business.

That has the most muscle behind it. So it's not like they're saying, well, how are we generating new clients? Well, we've got this really awesome telemarketing team. It's like, well, first we do TV commercials. We do social media, we do internet, we do major things. We do this, this number 17 is telemarketing.

It is something that they do just to do because the numbers are so high. Well, if I got somebody here making 300 calls a day, We're not putting a lot of training behind it. We're not putting a lot of money into it and we're not really [00:21:00] investing a lot. And this person touches 300 people, but those are, those are extra touch points.

It's like the cherry on the top. If I have a thousand people doing it, that adds up over time. So I think a lot of people still do it because. It, it, it's, it's just one additional touch point that they're not putting a lot of resources into anyway. But the other thing, the name should really speak volumes.

There's a huge difference between marketing in sales, sale sales is more of that one on one relationship building where marketing is just, you think of Superbowl commercials, you think of, you know, let's send out this massive email to a hundred thousand people. They're called telemarketers. I will, I will tell you, I don't think their goal is to sell anything.

Their goal is just to. Market, I don't care if you hang up, I said my name, I don't care if you get mad. I'm putting us cellular on the front of your mind for 10 seconds before you hang up on me. They don't need to sell to be effective. That's why it's called telemarketing as opposed to tell us selling.

None of these people are selling. They're just marketing and [00:22:00] trying to enhance that overall name recognition. And because of that, I don't think it's ever going to go away.

Leighann Lovely: So true. So unbelievably true. Telemarketing, not, not tell us selling totally and completely true. So Paul, if you could give one or two pieces of advice to a brand new salesperson coming in, what would that be?

Paul Neuberger: That's the billion dollar question. You're, you're, you're lucky. We're friends. Otherwise, I'd say people don't pay me enough to know that secret, but I'll tell it to you. It's a good question. So I would say twofold. This is, this is a hot, this obviously high level. So if anybody wanted some additional information, I'm sure we'll provide them with that.

But the first thing, this is cold calling specifically, but I think it's also sales. Generally the way that I teach Selling and cold calling is just incredibly drastically different from what else is out there. Just about everybody [00:23:00] cold calls to sell something. My clients cold call to give. Something you'll always be able to tell who was trained by Paul M Newberger and who wasn't because the people that aren't are the ones that go, I want to talk to you about your insurance needs.

That's not one of my clients. My clients will say something like I wanted to offer you a free service. I wanted to give you a couple of referrals. I wanted to offer you some educational literature to make you better at what you do because at the end of the day, For the most part, people's favorite radio station is W.

1. F. M. What's in it for me. And before they want to work with you, before they want to hire you, they want to see, well, I want to know you first, but what kind of value is in it for me? So, so tip number one is when you cold call, when you sell, when you do your door pulls, when you do your email campaigns, whatever, offer to give them something and ask nothing in return.

One, your response rate is going to be better too. It's going to give you more to bats because these people are at least going to want to [00:24:00] talk to you about whatever it is that you're giving. But when it comes to what you give, and I think Leighann, you, you said this really well earlier, a lot of people, salespeople wrap up their identity in what they do.

Obviously you're cold calling because it's part of what you do professionally. The issue is a lot of salespeople think the only value they can give. Has to do with their job and their workplace and the services that they provide. That's not true. You're a wonderful child of God. You're a once for all time human being.

You can offer people valued, not based on what you do, but instead who you are. So the ultimate, so, so tip number one is offer something, but if you really want to offer something amazing, that's going to get you a ton of appointments, do this. What can you offer somebody where they benefit first, that has nothing to do With what you're paid to offer.

So for instance, if you, if you're an insurance sales, you know, one of the things that you could [00:25:00] do to offer something for free is I'll give you a free insurance review. I'll do a free analysis of your handbook. That is better than selling. But it's still not as good as it could be, because that still kind of sounds salesy.

What can you offer this person? If you were retired, you could offer it to them. If you were a stay at home mom, you could offer it to them. Those are what we call personal value add propositions. One such example is referrals. Again, you don't want, you can't lie, but if I called somebody like Leighann Lovely, and I knew, like, Deep down in my head.

I wanted to sell to her. Okay. I'm not going to lead with that because I want to get to know her first and build a relationship. But one of my VAPs might be, Hey, Leighann, you know, I've got a lot of clients that are in sales. Some of them could use some sales training. I'd love to get to know you better and see if I could send you some referrals moving forward.

Most people are going to at least hear you out. It's a chance for us to build a relationship. And Oh, by the way, regardless of what I do, that is what I call a personal [00:26:00] VAP. That has nothing to do with where I work, but it's still a way to bring value to somebody.

Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. And for those of you who are, you know, very new or very green to this industry, you may be wrapped, you know, trying to figure out, well, what value do I bring?

And before you can answer that question, first, you must know yourself, get comfortable in your own identity. As Paul was talking about earlier in this, you know, earlier in our conversation, you have to, you have to do a little bit of self discovery in that, but get comfortable with it. With networking, get comfortable with being around people in a crowd, because that's where you're going to start to get some of that self discovery.

And you're going to really start getting comfortable with your own identity and figuring out what your personal value proposition basically statement is, um, it doesn't necessarily have to be tied to your company because like, again, I'm going to say it again. You don't have to [00:27:00] position yourself and I've been in positions where companies Oh, no, no.

You walk in and you introduce our company. And I'm like, no, no, no. That's not how you sell. I walk in and I introduce myself. And when it comes up, I'll talk about my products. You need to first find who you are in order to get people to like you because people buy from you. Not from your company. So I, I love, I love how you, you brought that up and I, I just want to make sure that the, the younger people don't get discouraged in trying to figure that out because it does sometimes take time.

Um, it took me a while and, and I will. Go ahead.

Paul Neuberger: Sorry. Uh, you, you, you see that you, you have this impact on me. You get my juices flowing, but, but, but the other thing that the other two real quick things, I'll let you finish your thought. But one, I hate to say this, but a lot of these organizations do the churn and burn method when it comes to their salespeople that to you, to [00:28:00] them, you're replaceable.

Yeah, I don't, I don't care how much money you make. I don't care how high your title is. If, if, if, if something happens to you though, they're going to find another one of you in a lot of times, these organizations just put an emphasis on quantity over quality. I think professional sports teams are the most egregious, uh, Organizations in this regard, they'll, they'll, they'll just work these young people to death because, Hey, I'm an NBA team.

Of course you'd want to work here. And then when you get burned out, they get somebody new. You have to resist the quantity over quality. It is quality over quantity. And the last point that I want to make, and I'm sure Leighann, you'd agree with this. Is it any kind of sale? There's two parts. There's the emotional part and the logical part.

Both have to be there. If you want to win somebody over first, if you want to sell to them first, you got to realize people are emotional buyers, not logical buyers. It's not so much what you say. It's all about how you make them feel. Feel when you've said it, I'm not saying lie or cheat. I've absolutely not, but don't focus [00:29:00] on, you're going to get 0.

12 percent APR extra over the, no, we're not, we're not talking logic. It's how do you look like Leighann just laughed right there. If I was trying to sell Leighann on something. That's a step in the right direction because I just hit her at an emotional level. The one who wins is the one who elicits an emotional reaction.

The one who wins is the one who's getting a lot of head nods. And if that means we're just talking about each other's kids playing little league for 60 minutes and business never comes up, eventually I'm going to win because I'm hitting that person at a deep emotive level, right?

Leighann Lovely: People

Paul Neuberger: buy,

Leighann Lovely: buy an emotion and justify on logic.

Um, a hundred. A hundred percent of the time. Well, I shouldn't say a hundred, but there are definitely times, you know, when logic does come into that. However, it comes down to if they don't like you, if you don't make them feel good, and there have been meetings where I've gone in and never talked about business the entire [00:30:00] time, and then I get an email and go, oh yeah.

Yeah, I forgot. Are you going to send me over the contract? And I go, oh, yeah, yeah, of course. I'm gonna send that over to you. Um, we didn't even talk about rates. We didn't even talk about this. And it's like, right. And you just, you just got to know them because all you do is listen to them, talk to them, get to know them.

And they feel the greatest they've ever felt. Especially during, you know, especially during the pandemic and during that time when everybody just wanted somebody to talk to their, you know, it's okay. Anyways, I digress. Um, this is the time, um, Paul, when you get your 32nd shameless pitch. Um, so, and every, every guest that comes on gets the opportunity to do that.

So please, as we are coming to time, 30 seconds, there you go.

Paul Neuberger: Awesome. So twofold one, uh, the normal cold call success rate in this country is about 5%. That's considered good. I just want you to ask yourself in what other profession is 5 percent success [00:31:00] considered good. Could you imagine if your doctor only diagnosed your illness 5 percent of the time?

Could you imagine if your auto mechanic only fixed your car 5 percent of the time, those people would be in jail for fraud or abuse or neglect. My clients have a, over the course of 11 years, have a 36. 4 percent cold call success rate and a 27. 1 percent voicemail response rate. If you want to make that quote unquote dream a reality, just go to my website, which is paulmnewberger.

com. And the only other thing that I would say is if you are, if you're a Christian, if you feel smothered in secular society, if you're frustrated with this imaginary wall that divides your faith life between your prayers. Your faith life and your business life. We'd love to have you join C suite for Christ, a collection of business executives that is determined to cover every square inch of this world in Christ.

And that website is c suite for christ. com.

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. Thank you so much for that. And, you will, uh, or I will include how to reach out to Paul in the show notes. So if you [00:32:00] are looking to reach out to him, please go to the show notes and you will be able to find, , Paul M Neuberger. Through, , whatever avenues, , I list there.

So, thank you, Paul. I so appreciate this amazing conversation. You are absolutely brilliant. , and thank you again for coming on.

Paul Neuberger: It was a pleasure, Leighann. Thanks for having me.