Melanie Joy | We Can Fight Each Other Or We Can End Injustice

The Overpopulation Podcast

In this episode, we sit down with social psychologist, Dr. Melanie Joy, to explore her groundbreaking concept of “carnism” - the belief system that conditions people to see eating animals as normal, natural, and necessary. Dr. Joy offers insights into how hidden ideologies shape behavior, and how building relational literacy can foster healthier relationships across social movements. Highlights include:

• How the three 'N's’ - normal, natural, necessary - are used to justify systems like carnism and pronatalism, and how dismantling these myths creates space for more compassionate choices;

• How cognitive distortions like objectification and dichotomization impact both human and animal relationships, perpetuating cycles of violence and oppression;

• Why dysregulated people dysregulate people and the formula for healthy relating;

• How relational literacy can empower activists to communicate skillfully, avoid burnout, and avoid infighting.

See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:

https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/melanie-joy

ABOUT US

The Overpopulation Podcast features enlightening conversations between Population Balance executive director Nandita Bajaj, researcher Alan Ware, and expert guests that draw the connections between pronatalism, human supremacy, social inequalities, and ecological overshoot. Population Balance's mission to inspire narrative, behavioral, and system change that shrinks our human impact and elevates the rights and wellbeing of people, animals, and the planet.

Learn more here: https://www.populationbalance.org/

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